[EJLambert]

Ok, you win. Where can I send you your trophy?

No trophy, just please stop the passive-aggressive BS, like "you win" or your "mocking" comment earlier. This is a box office thread. $200 mil is less than $480 mil. I know emotions run high over ghostbusters stuff here, and that's good, but we don't need to attack each other over it. Fight the issue, fight the message not the messenger, OK?

But passive aggressive BS is how I operate.

And I don't disagree. GB16 hasn't done well. It's about 10 mil short of breaking even. Does it mean that it's a bad movie? No. Several movies are held in high regard that weren't hits initially. (Labyrinth, It's a Wonderful Life, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Brazil and so forth.)

[gdonovan]

Money and the public don't create art, they just acknowledge it.

And yet you disregard the public spurning GB16 in the box office.

Heads you win, tails I lose.

At the moment, it's that they stuck to their guns.

I'd prefer the term "digging a hole"

Sony didn't panic at the last minute and edit the movie to shreds (unlike another studio I could mention).

They did slash the budget from 179 million to 144 million correct?

There is such a thing as a moral victory, and that is also good for business.

Unless of course it puts you out of business.

You might not like it but profit is required to keep the doors open and movies rolling along.

It has only been out for two months, people, and you guys have its legacy all picked out already!

I can't speak for others nor predict the future, what the legacy is for GB16 hasn't been written yet. What Sony does for course correction (if any) will determine that fate I think.

Frankly the Sony track record for movies isn't so good.. and that is based on historical data. All I hope is that quality GB movies come out of this fiasco. Be cool if they tried several different directors to give each movie a different feel.

[HunterCC]

But passive aggressive BS is how I operate.

And I don't disagree. GB16 hasn't done well. It's about 10 mil short of breaking even. Does it mean that it's a bad movie? No. Several movies are held in high regard that weren't hits initially. (Labyrinth, It's a Wonderful Life, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Brazil and so forth.)

LOL, OK no problem then.

I think there's more than $10 mil loss this movie, some have speculated $50-70 mil. Pixels made $20 mil more than GB16 is expected to, on almost $60 mil less budget, and is still considered a flop.

As far as movies being good despite box office, the movies you cite are the exception, not the rule. Usually bad movie = bad box office. But we could debate that.

[Alphagaia]

I'm having a very busy weekend, lots of parties, and I've only responded to a few posts, but I see I'm called a Sony bot again!

Gonna respond tomorrow when I have the time. In the meantime be kind to each other fellow Ghostbusters!

[RichardLess]

One thing real quick: let's hear it for the mods on this site for allowing this discussion to go on without banning when things get a little heated. Seriously. Good job. Too many fan sites pick sides and delete or ban those they disagree with. I appreciate the openness & dialogue even though I grit my teeth at some of the logic a few user's seem to employ. Thank you and keep up the good work(Kingpin, Ron Daniels et all)

Ok now back to our regularly scheduled program:

Stop stop stop with the money = quality garbage! We know money doesn't equal quality! Once again, one more time, just for Juror, Alpha and whoever else has said it: THIS IS A BOX OFFICE THREAD! One can think a movie is bad or good despite the box office result. We are here to talk about this movies box office: which is abysmal! This is a FACT. A well publicized fact. It didn't make money and lost a ton for a company that badly needed a hit! You pro reboot people will just have to live with this fact. Are we rubbing it in? Kind of. Why? Because it seems to validate our opinions on the movie. Now that doesn't mean box office = bad. It just means people avoided the movie for a reason. Don't even try to tell me if this thing had been a success the pro reboot crowd wouldn't be crowing about how much it made.

There was last minute editing that happened. Though that seems to be a Ghostbuster movie tradition, so what else is new? Still the fact that we are getting an extended cut with scenes that were publicized before the movie came out? This tells me there was some panic induced tinkering going on. There had been reports of this in some less than reputable sites but when the movie showed up sans music number? Well that tells you something. That was a big expensive scene. We have never had an alternative cut before for a GB film. God how I wish Ghostbusters II was given this treatment. All of those beautiful deleted scenes. Ugh. But I digress...

[JurorNo.2]

One thing real quick: let's hear it for the mods on this site for allowing this discussion to go on without banning when things get a little heated. Seriously. Good job. Too many fan sites pick sides and delete or ban those they disagree with. I appreciate the openness & dialogue even though I grit my teeth at some of the logic a few user's seem to employ. Thank you and keep up the good work(Kingpin, Ron Daniels et all)

100% agree. I may gripe at times but the mods here absolutely do their jobs and purely out of enjoyment for their fandom, which is great.

We know money doesn't equal quality!

No offence but I'm not sure of that sometimes.

THIS IS A BOX OFFICE THREAD!

Correct. That doesn't mean we give it more importance than it has. We've already given several valid examples of times when studios have taken other things into account. And you guys aren't discussing box office in a neutral, dispassionate way. You're using to demand a certain attitude from defenders. And you ignore positive box office points, such as the fact that it opened at #2.

Are we rubbing it in? Kind of.

Kind of?

It just means people avoided the movie for a reason.

And to me that reason is pretty obviously the trailer.

And the world is not some wonderfully fair place where if people don't like something, there must be a good reason.

There was last minute editing that happened.

Yes, every movie has that, but some waaaay more than others.

God how I wish Ghostbusters II was given this treatment. All of those beautiful deleted scenes. Ugh. But I digress...

I'm glad you brought up GBII. A movie that's had an undeserved shady reputation for a long time...despite the fact it was a box office hit. Imagine that...

[Sav C]

We have never had an alternative cut before for a GB film. God how I wish Ghostbusters II was given this treatment. All of those beautiful deleted scenes. Ugh. But I digress...

Do you think ILM ever shot the Slimer/Statue ending? And if so do you think they composited it? Oh how I would love an extended cut of Ghostbusters II (not the first one though, judging by its deleted scenes they made the right choices cutting that stuff out.)

[Commander_Jim]

Some people need to stop treating Ghostbusters as though it is some unknown new franchise or some kind of box office underdog fighting against the mighty geeks who stood in its way, or acting like its some little cult film waiting to be discovered by people on DVD. GB is one of the most recognisable and beloved movie series of all time, a movie series popular with all ages. There is no reason at all a new entry after so many years of people wanting one should not have been an EASY $500m (minimum) slam dunk. It takes a hell of a lot of bad word of mouth and rejection not just by fans and geeks but by the wider cinema going public for such a high profile, highly marketed franchise film to tank so badly that it made less money than a much derided Adam Sandler flop like Pixels. A Ghostbusters movie that couldn't even get triple figures internationally. ..

And fans should be upset at Feig and Sony for essentially burying the franchise like this, not defending them. Oh great, they "stood their ground" by refusing to acknowledge the fans that have kept the franchise alive for 30 years and insulting them instead, gee thanks for that Feig. Too bad it took sacrificing the franchise to maintain this "vision" which was clearly all about artIstic integrity, like all of Sonys other recent remakes.

Im not talking about people who enjoyed the film here, I dont get it but thats fine, but its become increasingly annoying how the stature of the GB franchise is being downplayed in order to try to make this film look like less of a box office disaster.

[RichardLess]

One thing real quick: let's hear it for the mods on this site for allowing this discussion to go on without banning when things get a little heated. Seriously. Good job. Too many fan sites pick sides and delete or ban those they disagree with. I appreciate the openness & dialogue even though I grit my teeth at some of the logic a few user's seem to employ. Thank you and keep up the good work(Kingpin, Ron Daniels et all)

100% agree. I may gripe at times but the mods here absolutely do their jobs and purely out of enjoyment for their fandom, which is great.

We know money doesn't equal quality!

No offence but I'm not sure of that sometimes.

THIS IS A BOX OFFICE THREAD!

Correct. That doesn't mean we give it more importance than it has. We've already given several valid examples of times when studios have taken other things into account. And you guys aren't discussing box office in a neutral, dispassionate way. You're using to demand a certain attitude from defenders. And you ignore positive box office points, such as the fact that it opened at #2.

Are we rubbing it in? Kind of.

Kind of?

It just means people avoided the movie for a reason.

And to me that reason is pretty obviously the trailer.

And the world is not some wonderfully fair place where if people don't like something, there must be a good reason.

There was last minute editing that happened.

Yes, every movie has that, but some waaaay more than others.

God how I wish Ghostbusters II was given this treatment. All of those beautiful deleted scenes. Ugh. But I digress...

I'm glad you brought up GBII. A movie that's had an undeserved shady reputation for a long time...despite the fact it was a box office hit. Imagine that...

Dude. Dude. Dude. Lol. Did you really just say that a movie with the name "Ghostbusters"(which opened with very little NEW competition) opening at number 2 is a POSITIVE!?! That ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is what I call a death blow to this conversation/debate. This is it. A 250 million dollar movie opens with less than 50 million, at number 2, next to the 2nd weekend on an animated Pet movie, and you take that as a postive? Was that a joke? Did I miss something? Number 2? Is a...good thing? When did that happen? "Well it could've been worse, at least it didn't open at number 5,6,9 or 12"

Ok. opening at number 2, to sub 50 million, next to the 2nd weekend of an animated kids movie, is NEGATIVE. Let me just clear that up right now. There is no middle ground on this. Studios DO NOT spend 100 million in marketing money to open at number 2. No sir. No. No. No. No.

Is that where we are? Is that how little we expect? That some of us can see a movie opening at number 2 as a postive? I just don't even know what to say man. My god..

Edit: I love GB2 with all my soul but it was very much seen as a disappointment at the time, it had a great opening weekend(record breaking) but it was not by any means considered a box office hit. It was a big disappointment. Dawn Steel lost her job and Columbia was quickly sold to Sony after this. It made a bit of money but it was no where near what they wanted. It made 50% of the original. Batman just ate everything up in its wake.

[JurorNo.2]

There is no reason at all a new entry after so many years of people wanting one should not have been an EASY $500m (minimum) slam dunk.

Not when it's different actors.

And fans should be upset at Feig and Sony for essentially burying the franchise like this, not defending them.

What has been buried? You just rightly pointed that Ghostbusters is recognizable and continues to live on, etc. I don't think anything has changed.

Oh great, they "stood their ground" by refusing to acknowledge the fans

Not at all what we've been saying.

insulting them instead

I didn't troll anyone. Hence I didn't feel insulted.

[JurorNo.2]

That ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is what I call a death blow to this conversation/debate. This is it.

K, bye then. Enjoy talking to yourself.

[RichardLess]

That ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is what I call a death blow to this conversation/debate. This is it.

K, bye then. Enjoy talking to yourself.

Is this you admitting to defeat?
I think so.

Flawless Victory!!

**Champagne sprays everywhere**
We are the Champions my friend!! And we'll keep on fighting to the end!!

[JurorNo.2]

Your mother.

[RichardLess]

Your mother.

I know you are just quoting a movie and it's all in good fun but I literally just lost my mother 2 months ago.

Weird.

[JurorNo.2]

Your mother.

I know you are just quoting a movie and it's all in good fun but I literally just lost my mother 2 months ago.

Weird.

You have my sympathies and understanding for future conversations.

[RichardLess]

I know you are just quoting a movie and it's all in good fun but I literally just lost my mother 2 months ago.

Weird.

You have my sympathies and understanding for future conversations.

Oh it's all good. We found her a few hours later. Turned out her car broke down & didn't have any battery life left in her cellphone.

[JurorNo.2]

You have my sympathies and understanding for future conversations.

Oh it's all good. We found her a few hours later. Turned out her car broke down & didn't have any battery life left in her cellphone.

[JurorNo.2]

Anyway!

There is no middle ground on this.

You don't want there to be.

Edit: I love GB2 with all my soul but it was very much seen as a disappointment at the time, it had a great opening weekend(record breaking) but it was not by any means considered a box office hit. It was a big disappointment. Dawn Steel lost her job and Columbia was quickly sold to Sony after this. It made a bit of money but it was no where near what they wanted. It made 50% of the original. Batman just ate everything up in its wake.

GBII came out in June. Sony purchasing Columbia was announced in September. I doubt there was a direct connection. It was more likely a long time coming. Columbia had also been bought by Coca Cola in 1982. Same with Steel, from what I read, her tenure had several losses, as did the person before her. The whole world isn't about Ghostbusters. You're seeing GBII's reception in this needlessly overly negative way, just like GB16.

[RichardLess]

Anyway!

There is no middle ground on this.

You don't want there to be.

Edit: I love GB2 with all my soul but it was very much seen as a disappointment at the time, it had a great opening weekend(record breaking) but it was not by any means considered a box office hit. It was a big disappointment. Dawn Steel lost her job and Columbia was quickly sold to Sony after this. It made a bit of money but it was no where near what they wanted. It made 50% of the original. Batman just ate everything up in its wake.

GBII came out in June. Sony purchasing Columbia was announced in September. I doubt there was a direct connection. It was more likely a long time coming. Columbia had also been bought by Coca Cola in 1982. You're seeing GBII's reception in this needlessly overly negative way, just like GB16.

You are hopeless. You're seriously arguing with me that GB2 was a disappointment? Are you arguing just to argue? Come on dude. Everyone knows that GB2 had a disappointing run. It made half of the original film. If you think GB2 was a hit, I'm going to have to call you ignorant. Did it make money? Yes. Even Ivan Reitman admits it didn't do as well as hoped, same with Dan Aykroyd. Sony was waiting on GB2 before they pulled the trigger. This is known. Batman was just too big. 112 million domestic is disappointing. And keep in mind that I LOVE this movie. So there goes that bias crap. See? I can love a movie and call it's box office a disappointment. Sorry Juror. You are just plain wrong here.

Also: careful with the double posts. You can get yourself in trouble with those.

[JurorNo.2]

Arguing to argue seems to be your area of expertise.

[Fritz]

You know what, I'm locking this thread for just a little bit. This is getting nasty and I want to consult with the other Mods about it.