Discuss Ghostbusters: Afterlife, released on November 19, 2021 and directed by Jason Reitman.
#4964910
Kingpin wrote: January 7th, 2022, 3:16 am
mrmichaelt wrote: January 6th, 2022, 6:07 pm Eric confirmed it was a Starbucks and Winston bought it after the Summerville battle.
No disrespect meant to Eric, but I'm not buying that.

The Firehouse doesn't look like it was recently vacated, it looks like it hasn't been used in in years.
It could have been bought by Starbucks, but maybe not converted into one. All in all, I wish they just removed that joke and explain it was structurally unsound and needed big money to fix.
#4964934
I don't know if it was ever meant as a joke, but I thought it worked well as a misdirection... I was fooled and felt a pang of disappointment at the thought they'd lost the Firehouse... Until I saw those familiar apparatus bay doors and white/green tilework appear... And then I was grinning like an idiot. :)

I know I'm probably applying too much real world logic to it (it's a family bad habit :P), but it really having been turned into a Starbucks just doesn't work for me... But I've said my piece. :)

I guess if they'd had more time to work with (and we know it was a late-in-the-day addition to Afterlife, based on the behind-the-scenes photos showing the crew wearing face masks) that they would've added some set dressing like cafe tables and signage to signify what'd happened to the place.
#4964997
Kingpin wrote: January 7th, 2022, 5:31 pm I don't know if it was ever meant as a joke, but I thought it worked well as a misdirection... I was fooled and felt a pang of disappointment at the thought they'd lost the Firehouse... Until I saw those familiar apparatus bay doors and white/green tilework appear... And then I was grinning like an idiot. :)

I know I'm probably applying too much real world logic to it (it's a family bad habit :P), but it really having been turned into a Starbucks just doesn't work for me... But I've said my piece. :)

I guess if they'd had more time to work with (and we know it was a late-in-the-day addition to Afterlife, based on the behind-the-scenes photos showing the crew wearing face masks) that they would've added some set dressing like cafe tables and signage to signify what'd happened to the place.
I guess with some reshoots and reworking the script at additional times, they forgot to go over it with a fine tooth comb.

I mean this is RAY, did you not see how much he fell in love with the firehouse? He's still in NY right? Why would he believe someone saying it, and not seeing it for himself. Maybe too much heartbreak. That's what I'm going with right now, rather than a gap in continuity.

Someone should have really given this a good going-over with.

Here's ANOTHER burning question:

At the end Trevor races to the deceased remains of the terror dog and RIPS OFF THE HEAD of one of them. How did they know they did that? What if it didn't crumble? How did they know the person was still inside.
#4965013
fusi0n wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:28 pm At the end Trevor races to the deceased remains of the terror dog and RIPS OFF THE HEAD of one of them. How did they know they did that? What if it didn't crumble? How did they know the person was still inside.
He drove Phoebe and Podcast close to the mountain temple so he would have seen them trap Zuul and Callie being released. He was there to see Lucky being turned into a Terror Dog. He ran to the husks and I assume he saw Vinz's husk move or heard Gary calling for help since he was so up close to it.
#4965019
fusi0n wrote: January 8th, 2022, 7:28 pm How did they know they did that? What if it didn't crumble? How did they know the person was still inside.
Perhaps he didn't know, but risked the chance in case it might work?
#4965390
RealGhostbusterJay wrote: January 14th, 2022, 5:56 am Perhaps Starbucks did buy it...but due to the equipment in the basement the management went "yeah maybe this location isn't for us" and put it back up for lease...afterall there are starbucks closing as of late. Some in my neck of the woods did.
Pretty sure they would've made that decision before they'd signed the paperwork, you don't buy a house without checking the pipes and electrics are all sound. :)
#4965634
I thought the Starbucks line was just a joke. Like Ray was kidding around with Podcast cause that’s like a running joke in general. That everything gets turned into a Starbucks nowadays.

As for Egon and what happened with the team I find it hard to accept. Especially Ray not believing Egon cause he’s so into the supernatural. He owns a bookstore on it. This is really my only issue.

I wish it was done a little differently. Like maybe Egon was threatened by a ghost or something and felt he had to do it alone so he mysteriously left. It would go along with becoming reclusive.

So far I’ve only seen it once in theaters but it leaves Ray in a bad light imo.
#4965673
Ray saying: "Egon Spengler can burn in hell" was just a Rian Johnson to me. Added only to shock an audience, with no inherent creative value.

I understand that from a relatively cheap "shock without content" directing point of view.

But Ray later saying: "there's a lot of mountains with ancient carvings, take a little advice, don't go chasing ghosts" showed that the script writer really had no clue about Ray's character as written in the prior movies.
Last edited by One time on July 5th, 2022, 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4965747
Well it’s not just that. Ray not trusting his judgment and then apparently not calling or going over to check things out.

I can see Peter and Winston having doubts or moving on to other things with the business struggling but it’s very out of character for Ray imo.
Q-man, One time liked this
#4965767
WCat2000 wrote: January 19th, 2022, 5:01 pm Well it’s not just that. Ray not trusting his judgment and then apparently not calling or going over to check things out.

I can see Peter and Winston having doubts or moving on to other things with the business struggling but it’s very out of character for Ray imo.
Egon became a thief, robbing the Ghostbusters and Ray stopped believing in supernatural threats.

Two very believable concepts if you know anything about Ghostbusters at all right?

Like the 2 very first things you would think of, to base the story of your entire Ghostbusters movie on.

Right?
#4970992
I'm gonna throw my two cents in.

I'm going to assume that Ray saw it turned into a Starbucks, but maybe it didn't last long, and Ray never heard anything about it.

Second, and this is a big one, I want to know: Just when did Egon start suspecting Gozer's eventual return in the first place? How did he discover her possible return? It seems weird that he suddenly went into prophet mode for no particular reason, unless something came to his attention.
#4970993
Seth Rex wrote: June 27th, 2022, 2:55 pm Second, and this is a big one, I want to know: Just when did Egon start suspecting Gozer's eventual return in the first place? How did he discover her possible return? It seems weird that he suddenly went into prophet mode for no particular reason, unless something came to his attention.
Yeah, TVG would have been a good way to seed the reason why he looked into Gozerian mythos again. But can't be helped.

I suspect the content in the journal with the HasLab Proton Pack might answer why.
#4971041
Seth Rex wrote: June 27th, 2022, 2:55 pm I'm going to assume that Ray saw it turned into a Starbucks, but maybe it didn't last long, and Ray never heard anything about it.
If there's nothing in "Ghostbusters 4"/"Ghostbusters: Firehouse" indicating it was turned into a Starbucks beyond Ray's line, then I think we can quietly retcon as it never having actually been turned into a Starbucks*, given the absence of any cafe equipment or furniture, and the presence of an active Containment Unit.

*Rationalising it off as either Ray misheard, or he simply spun that line to discourage Phoebe.
#4971047
I'm thinking it's along the lines of what Kingpin mentioned ( to discourage Phoebe) but it's possible Ray gave up on the Business when Egon left and rigged up a power source to keep the Containment Unit going and sealed the basement up so nobody would find it.

Ray could've left the FireHouse abandoned until he reunited with Winston and Peter?Ray then handed it all over to Winston after he acquiring to reopen? Despite Winston's fortune maybe didn't need buy it back but he's investing his money into the reopening?
#4971048
A little off track but maybe not, just feel like this needs to be said again...Some of you guys have been lucky enough to never have an ugly falling out with a close friend and it shows. It's never the ones you expect. I buy all of the fallout between Egon and Ray.

Imagine starting a business with your closest friends, living and working together almost 24/7. People change over time, priorities change. With Egon gone, I can't imagine Ray wanting to keep the place running and I can't imagine Venkman and Zeddemore would've disagreed.
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#4971053
Unless the sequel elaborates more on it, I did ask Eric Reich about it back in January and he confirmed the Firehouse "was a Starbucks, Winston bought it after the battle in Summerville."

Also it's not really specified how long it was a Starbucks. There is some wiggle room. That location might have floundered and Starbucks bailed on that location and the property was left abandoned for x amount of time. Or if it was still operating, Winston's rich. He had Starbucks hauled out asap while the Ecto-1 was on it's way back to New York.

I agree with Glenn's idea about the basement as well. That's one I thing I keep forgetting to rewatch from GB1 to see which light is blinking in the Afterlife tag. Is that the one that confirms if the field is neutronized or not?
#4971113
Dr.D wrote: June 29th, 2022, 4:42 pm A little off track but maybe not, just feel like this needs to be said again...Some of you guys have been lucky enough to never have an ugly falling out with a close friend and it shows. It's never the ones you expect. I buy all of the fallout between Egon and Ray.

Imagine starting a business with your closest friends, living and working together almost 24/7. People change over time, priorities change. With Egon gone, I can't imagine Ray wanting to keep the place running and I can't imagine Venkman and Zeddemore would've disagreed.
I believe in a fallout. That happens sometimes unfortunately.

But Ray not believing Egon and calling him crazy? I mean they fought a 112.5ft marshmallow man together. What sounds “crazy” after that? And Ray saying: "Don't go chasing ghosts" in Afterlife showed that the scriptwriter had no idea.

The whole franchise (movies, games, cartoons) Egons lines are “take a look at these readings Ray” or “this doesn’t look good Ray”, and Ray double checks the data and confirms it.

They’re men of science, the data is there or it’s not. It just seemed convenient script wise for Ray to suddenly stop believing Egon (“I’m sorry I didn’t believe you”), for Egon to then be outcast and steal the equipment and start the plot.

I hope the new movie (or Hasbro Egon’s journal) explains that a bit better. Like maybe Egon started actually hallucinating and not using science because he was at deaths door or something.

I don’t know. I love Afterlife, but that one issue of Ray not believing Egon is a bit of a “plot hole” for me. Don’t wanna derail the thread discussion about the timeline though.

EDIT: Maybe as a plot of Ghostbusters 4: Firehouse, some alternate spectral source (apart from Gozer, perhaps another Sumerian God, a rival to Gozer; Tiamat like in GBTVG?) drove Egon’s mind to go to Summerville, pending the imminent arrival of Gozer. Affected Egon’ interpretation of the data, but only in Egon’s mind, to hide itself from Gozer.

Perhaps that “alternate spectral source” drove Egon literally mad and Ray had legitimate concerns as Egon was starting to show symptoms of clinical madness. Something actually affecting Egon’s logic and science would exonerate Ray of the unrealistic “not believing Egon”.
Last edited by One time on July 5th, 2022, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4971118
One time wrote: July 3rd, 2022, 8:42 pm But Ray not believing Egon and calling him crazy? I mean they fought a 112.5ft marshmallow man together. What sounds “crazy” after that?
Here's the thing... I think a lot of people really aren't understanding the position Ray was in. Sure, they fought a 100-foot marshmallow, Terror Dogs, a spirit trapped in a painting, but Egon was always the logical and no-nonsense member of the team.

So put yourself in Ray's shoes and consider how you'd feel if the logical and serious member of the team started getting dismissive about the calls that were keeping you in business... Possibly even to the point where he stopped going out on them to focus on what's suddenly started occupying his mind. Consider how you'd feel if they went from calm and collected to "the end is nigh", but didn't fully explain why?

I appreciate that we're missing some of the vital information, but I personally feel that Ray was put in an impossible position, and Egon's focus on the return of Gozer was so all-consuming that from the outside, it looked like isolationist paranoia.

While it does seem somewhat out of character and poorly written, I think it is the unfortunate result of the fact that Harold wouldn't be able to reprise Egon, and with Jason understandably choosing not to cast a sound-a-like.
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#4971151
mrmichaelt wrote: July 4th, 2022, 4:52 am Sound logic, Kingpin. But I'm still curious if the Haslab Proton Pack's Egon's journal and/or the Dark Horse comic may shed some light on what led Egon back to Gozerian myth and his obsession.
Agreed. In terms of GB’s lore, Egon’s unknown spouse and Ray not believing Egon, turning Egon into a thief are the two largest plot holes in the movie for me. Creatively they are likely to address that in some way. I think Egon going slowly clinically insane / obsessed for some mysterious reason would be believable.

Even Ray saying something like “And don’t get me wrong kid, I really wanted to believe,… but the readings just didn’t add up. It made no sense”

Would have solved it.
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#4971153
They needed something where Egon is proved wrong in front of the other GBs. Something to make them question the state of his mind. Maybe he got the dates wrong at first and the GBs all showed up ready to fight and nothing happened. Maybe Egon's absence during routine calls put the others in danger some how? Who knows? But I agree we needed a little more to help swallow the pill that Ray wouldn't believe Egon.

I remember we all had theories before Afterlife that maybe Egon died due to some kind of experiment he and Ray were running in Summerville and part of me wishes they'd have gone that route.
#4971157
Dr.D wrote: July 5th, 2022, 10:58 am They needed something where Egon is proved wrong in front of the other GBs. Something to make them question the state of his mind. Maybe he got the dates wrong at first and the GBs all showed up ready to fight and nothing happened. Maybe Egon's absence during routine calls put the others in danger some how? Who knows? But I agree we needed a little more to help swallow the pill that Ray wouldn't believe Egon.

I remember we all had theories before Afterlife that maybe Egon died due to some kind of experiment he and Ray were running in Summerville and part of me wishes they'd have gone that route.
I agree. I'm surprised how much attention the "Starbucks" thing is getting. I didn't even think twice about that. I know many Starbucks where they never go into the basement / pipe room. They probably thought the containment unit was part of the plumbing or power grid. It's a complete non issue for me.

Much more important is the Ray-Egon thing in my opinion. Why didn't Ray check up on him? Or try to establish what happened? I mean, Egon only: "stole all the equipment on his own" causing the GBs to just about end. Not a thing you'd go: "Oh well, I guess that's that". After all they went through? I mean, it's a friend with whom you battled actual Gods together.

"He called me 10 years later" Was really not enough. No way Ray would have let that go for 10 years (and then still not believed him).

Here's how they could solve it: the beauty about Afterlife was how it "encompassed" GB1. It made GB1 a better movie with all the callbacks. There is no way GB: Firehouse doesn't call back to Afterlife. It's what modern movie making is about. It's gonna link up somehow. I think the challenge for the script writers now is how to link GB: Firehouse to the prior movies (and GBTVG). How could they link it in some way that makes all prior media cohesive and expand the GBs universe?

I think going to the prime question of Ghostbusters:

Ever wonder -why- Sumerian Gods (and specifically that one) targeted NYC? I think that is the real question of Ghostbusters which deserves a creative answer. Why Sumerian Gods? Why was there a map of Summerville in cuneiform?

I don't know, what I do know is that Sumerian mythology is so old, it is the closest timewise to the (reconstructed) Proto-Indo-European religion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... _mythology

The ancestor of all modern western religions. The prime religion all religions we know today spawned from.
It would be an interesting development going from GB1 (Ghosts) -> GB: Afterlife (human afterlife) -> GB: "Firehouse" (larger scale). Plus using actual Sumerian Gods (or even going further back) would grow the GB universe with actual real word concepts and history (as opposed to "Gozer").

EDIT: Like I mentioned before, GBTVG and some GB comics introduced Tiamat as a rival to Gozer. Maybe it had a role to play in all this from the start? Perhaps causing Egon to act that way. I don't know, just my opinion / an option
Last edited by One time on July 5th, 2022, 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4971158
Can I pitch the retcon of all retcons?

What if, somehow within the narrative of the next movie, we find out that there is a supernatural reason people seem to forget the apocalyptic events of the first two movies? Maybe there is something connected to a rise in psychokinetic energy that can overload a part of the human brain related to memory? Sorta like how they always try to explain away one Doctor Who meeting another Doctor Who, for one sci-fi reason or another.

Dunno if it's needed but it might be kinda nice to throw in and TRY to explain how a giant Marshmallow walking through one of the biggest cities in the world was seemingly glossed over by the rest of the world.
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