- August 15th, 2019, 2:54 pm#4922583
philmorgan81 wrote: ↑August 15th, 2019, 12:58 pm YES!Yay!
philmorgan81 liked this
philmorgan81 wrote: ↑August 15th, 2019, 12:58 pm YES!Yay!
Styrofoam_Guy wrote: ↑August 14th, 2019, 11:11 pmThose movies aren't accurate comparisons to a summer tentpole PG-13 sci-fi comedy based on a franchise. A better comparison might be the more recent Men in Black movies.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 14th, 2019, 7:16 amSo if this $170 million budget is true then where does the money go. How does it break down to actors/actress, equipment, food, hotels, costumes, props special effects etc.
Honestly? Same here. I thought the budget would be about 90 million. But I'm convinced that the 170 number(whether in CDN or not) is legit.
You know cellphone plans? For example something like 45 dollars gets something like 450 weekday minutes, 2 Gigs of Data and unlimited Eve and weekends? Well that's how *some* movies work a budget. Which is why you see a lot of movies with similar numbers. So, for example, 120 million dollars will you get X number of shooting days, with X Number of crew and X number of visual effect shots. Now it's not EXACTLY like that, but I was trying to find a way to describe why the 170 number makes sense to me and that's the best way I can describe it.
I was trying to find a comparable movie without lots of CGI special effects
2018 The Mule (directed and starred Clint Eastwood)
Budget $50 Million
I have not seen this movie so I would not think it has a lot of special effects or fancy props/ costumes. Besides Clint Eastwood I have not heard of any of the other actors in this movie.
2018 The Favourite (Starred Emma Stone)
Budget $15 Million
I did see this movie and it has a lot of costumes and props. I am not familiar with the director or other actors.
2018 Annihilation (stars Natalie Portman, Jennifer Jason Leigh)
Budget $40-55 Million
I am not familiar with the director or other actors. A lot more special effects compared to the two movies above. Some props and costumes.
As a comparison Annihilation seems to be the movie closest to GB2020. Even at $120 Million compared to Annihilation where would the extra $60+ Million go? Salaries for the actors?
Would it be CGI SFX? I thought they were going to do as much practical SFX as possible?
The Favourite has loads of costumes and props and only cost $15 Million. Granted there weren't many explosions in this movie but a $100+ Million difference?
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 8:30 amThose movies aren't accurate comparisons to a summer tentpole PG-13 sci-fi comedy based on a franchise. A better comparison might be the more recent Men in Black movies.This is fundamentally nonsensical because the last two MIB movies (the only two that could be called recent) cost wildly different amounts. MIB³ (2012) cost $225m. Men in Black International (2019) cost less than half that at $110m. Ironically, the former was far more profitable; the new one is on par with Ghostbusters (2016)'s middling box office performance.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 8:30 amHere's an example I use sometimes. So has everyone seen Hellboy 2? The Golden Army? That movie cost 80 million dollars. It looks like a 150 million dollar film. Easily. There's lots of great CGI, make up, animatronics, big set pieces...the works.This also feels like an argument that Ghostbusters 2020 doesn't need to and shouldn't cost $120m ($170 CAN).
The very first Deadpool cost 50-60 million dollars. It looks like a 100 million dollar movie.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 1:37 pmThat's my bad. I meant the most recent Men in Black movie. Men in Black 3 was so expensive because it's production was a mess. They started filming without a finished script. Also Will Smith is expensive lol.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 8:30 amThose movies aren't accurate comparisons to a summer tentpole PG-13 sci-fi comedy based on a franchise. A better comparison might be the more recent Men in Black movies.This is fundamentally nonsensical because the last two MIB movies (the only two that could be called recent) cost wildly different amounts. MIB³ (2012) cost $225m. Men in Black International (2019) cost less than half that at $110m. Ironically, the former was far more profitable; the new one is on par with Ghostbusters (2016)'s middling box office performance.
I maintain that suffering the hit of MIB: I's failure, which was equivalent to the box office performance of Ghostbusters (2016), and on a movie that also represents an IP they're desperate to relaunch, right as Ghostbusters 2020 is about to start shooting, is going to make them very nervous...unless it's coming in at a lower cost than either of those previous films. I almost worried the movie might get delayed and rebudgeted, but it seems to have proceeded on schedule.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 8:30 amHere's an example I use sometimes. So has everyone seen Hellboy 2? The Golden Army? That movie cost 80 million dollars. It looks like a 150 million dollar film. Easily. There's lots of great CGI, make up, animatronics, big set pieces...the works.This also feels like an argument that Ghostbusters 2020 doesn't need to and shouldn't cost $120m ($170 CAN).
The very first Deadpool cost 50-60 million dollars. It looks like a 100 million dollar movie.
Styrofoam_Guy wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 9:13 pm The thing that sticks out in this whole thing is that Jason Reitman has not directed a film this size before.That's not how things really work. Here's a few examples: Christopher Nolan went from Memnto and Insomina to Batman Begins. Rian Johnson went from small indie films to Star Wars The Last Jedi. The guy that directed Bumblebee the Transformers movie had only made inexpensive stop motion animation.. Look at Alan Taylor. Did nothing but TV work and was given a 160 million budget Thor sequel and then a 170 million dollar Terminator sequel. It happens all the time. With much less talented filmmakers than Jason Reitman. True he's just never made a film of this scale before. He'll rely on his line producer & father to guide him thru the process. Look at Joss Whedon's budgets before he started making 200 million dollar+ Avenger movies. He had one film. From 2005. That cost something like 30-40 million. He went from that Avengers. Like I said, it's very common.
After some searching on the movies that Jason has directed
Tully (2018)
Budget est $13 Million
Labor Day (2013)
Budget est $18 Million
Young Adult (2011)
Budget est $12 Million
Up In The Air (2009)
Budget $30 Million
Juno (2007)
Budget est $7.5 Million
Looking at his past movies I find it very hard for the Sony bean counters and execs would green light a U$120 Million budget for a director that has not done a huge blockbuster. Now I am thinking even U$70 Million sound high according to his past budgets.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 4:52 pmSony wants desperately to get this film right. They've seen what happens with Spider-Man when they get it right. There is no other movie of more importance right now at Sony than Ghostbusters 2020, I assure you. Not even the next Spider-Man film. There is more riding on this film than we can know. If they get it wrong? That's it. Ghostbusters as we know it is dead. Ghostcorp will fold and there will be no more GB films for a good long while. If they get it right? Well, I don't have to explain the positives on that front.While I definitely don't agree that this movie matters more to Sony than Spider-Man -- the last entry just became their highest-grossing movie ever (frankly, I'm not sure it means more to them than Jumanji 2), I would agree it's a top 5 priority at worst...which is precisely why I expect they're being cautious, budget-wise. Last time, they did a big spend and it didn't pay off. If they want to build this up into a profitable film franchise again (as opposed to a reliable merch machine), they're going to take a more cautious approach across the board. That includes finding a bar for success they feel they can safely hit even in a middling scenario (for example, a $70-80m budget at which 2016's numbers would be more than satisfactory).
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 2:54 pmIt's not my opinion that this is the most important movie at Sony right now. It's what I've been told & what I've seen written @ Deadline & Vareity. Why is it so important?RichardLess wrote: ↑August 16th, 2019, 4:52 pmSony wants desperately to get this film right. They've seen what happens with Spider-Man when they get it right. There is no other movie of more importance right now at Sony than Ghostbusters 2020, I assure you. Not even the next Spider-Man film. There is more riding on this film than we can know. If they get it wrong? That's it. Ghostbusters as we know it is dead. Ghostcorp will fold and there will be no more GB films for a good long while. If they get it right? Well, I don't have to explain the positives on that front.While I definitely don't agree that this movie matters more to Sony than Spider-Man -- the last entry just became their highest-grossing movie ever (frankly, I'm not sure it means more to them than Jumanji 2), I would agree it's a top 5 priority at worst...which is precisely why I expect they're being cautious, budget-wise. Last time, they did a big spend and it didn't pay off. If they want to build this up into a profitable film franchise again (as opposed to a reliable merch machine), they're going to take a more cautious approach across the board. That includes finding a bar for success they feel they can safely hit even in a middling scenario (for example, a $70-80m budget at which 2016's numbers would be more than satisfactory).
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmIt's not my opinion that this is the most important movie at Sony right now. It's what I've been told & what I've seen written @ Deadline & Vareity.I didn't say it wasn't important. I just said it wasn't such a drastic leader of the pack (again, top 5). It is obviously important to Sony -- I'm pretty sure I mentioned it being a rare piece of IP they own in this thread before you, you don't have to tell me. That said, as much as Sony wants to relaunch this franchise, they know (as you do, since you started the thread with it) that the 2016 movie damaged the brand (not a reflection of the quality of the film necessarily, which I like, but the tiring discourse followed by an underperforming movie). I'd say this naturally pushes it down the list because it becomes a riskier proposition the studio is less likely to want to roll big dice on. They're hoping this is a sly winner, like an ace in the hole.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmDisney via Kevin Feige, are running the Spider-Man show over at Sony and...Sony is embarrassed right now. Sure they made a billion dollars. But this was a Marvel run movie. It's part of the MCU. They've made Spider-Man bigger and better than he's ever been and they had to go outside of their studio to do that.Per Feige himself in an interview, he does not run the Sony Spider-Man movies like people seem to think he does. Marvel Studios advises informally and somewhat minimally during the early planning stages -- he says he has maybe a couple of meetings with them. Any Sony Spider-Man movie is 85-90% Sony's work, again. Plus, even if it wasn't a $800m smash, Spider-Verse is still an Oscar-winning success (which Feige had zero involvement in).
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmGhostbusters is at a cross roads. If they nail this film and get it absolutely right? It's another money machine. If they don't? Well...like I've said. We won't be seeing a Ghostbusters movie for a looong time.Yeah, also something I said in this thread that you don't have to tell me. My point isn't that this isn't the case, my point is that they'll just move on if it isn't a hit. It's not going to tarnish the good name of Sony. It'll just be viewed as another case of the audience not caring about a dormant (well, between 1989 and 2014) property.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmI mean, yeah Jumanji is a big property but it isn't exactly something people are die hard fans of.You do realize that Jumanji: WttJ was the studio's biggest movie ever, until it was topped by Far From Home, right? While they would certainly like both, you'd have to be nuts to think they're less interested in $950m+ just because it's not a merch juggernaut like Ghostbusters -- and remember, Ghostbusters' merch domination crossed a billion over a decade ago, when no new movies had been made since 1989. As much as they'd like new smash hit movies to go with the merch, even they'd probably admit that's historically been unnecessary.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 1:42 am[/quote]RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmIt's not my opinion that this is the most important movie at Sony right now. It's what I've been told & what I've seen written @ Deadline & Vareity.I didn't say it wasn't important. I just said it wasn't such a drastic leader of the pack (again, top 5). It is obviously important to Sony -- I'm pretty sure I mentioned it being a rare piece of IP they own in this thread before you, you don't have to tell me. That said, as much as Sony wants to relaunch this franchise, they know (as you do, since you started the thread with it) that the 2016 movie damaged the brand (not a reflection of the quality of the film necessarily, which I like, but the tiring discourse followed by an underperforming movie). I'd say this naturally pushes it down the list because it becomes a riskier proposition the studio is less likely to want to roll big dice on. They're hoping this is a sly winner, like an ace in the hole.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmDisney via Kevin Feige, are running the Spider-Man show over at Sony and...Sony is embarrassed right now. Sure they made a billion dollars. But this was a Marvel run movie. It's part of the MCU. They've made Spider-Man bigger and better than he's ever been and they had to go outside of their studio to do that.Per Feige himself in an interview, he does not run the Sony Spider-Man movies like people seem to think he does. Marvel Studios advises informally and somewhat minimally during the early planning stages -- he says he has maybe a couple of meetings with them. Any Sony Spider-Man movie is 85-90% Sony's work, again. Plus, even if it wasn't a $800m smash, Spider-Verse is still an Oscar-winning success (which Feige had zero involvement in).RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmGhostbusters is at a cross roads. If they nail this film and get it absolutely right? It's another money machine. If they don't? Well...like I've said. We won't be seeing a Ghostbusters movie for a looong time.Yeah, also something I said in this thread that you don't have to tell me. My point isn't that this isn't the case, my point is that they'll just move on if it isn't a hit. It's not going to tarnish the good name of Sony. It'll just be viewed as another case of the audience not caring about a dormant (well, between 1989 and 2014) property.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 17th, 2019, 5:10 pmI mean, yeah Jumanji is a big property but it isn't exactly something people are die hard fans of.You do realize that Jumanji: WttJ was the studio's biggest movie ever, until it was topped by Far From Home, right? While they would certainly like both, you'd have to be nuts to think they're less interested in $950m+ just because it's not a merch juggernaut like Ghostbusters -- and remember, Ghostbusters' merch domination crossed a billion over a decade ago, when no new movies had been made since 1989. As much as they'd like new smash hit movies to go with the merch, even they'd probably admit that's historically been unnecessary.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amSo here's something really important that I should repeat. Jumanji and Spider-Man are healthy franchises. Ghostbusters is not. Spider-Man and Jumanji are not original Sony IP. If you don't think that matters to a studio...I don't know what to say. It does. It just does. Again..it isn't something I've guessed at or it's an opinion of mine, it's something I've been told by marketing people I know who work @ Sony and have also read at deadline and variety. I mean, if you want to discount that, sure. But I can't debate things that aren't opinion.Good lord, man. The post you were replying to, I literally said that I mentioned it was wholly Sony-owned IP and that was important before you did. How you read my previous reply and think I was denying that?
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amYou seem to determined to think box-office is the only thing that matters at studios. It's not.Money is definitely the most important thing in Hollywood, and the most important thing to any business in a capitalist society. That's not to say ego isn't a thing, obviously, it definitely is, but I guarantee you, even people working overtime to accommodate people's pride are definitely navigating that with an eye toward how it can make them money first and foremost.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amIf GB2020 doesn't work it 100% will tarnish the Sony Pictures name. 10000%. That seems fairly obvious, right? If GB2020 doesn't work people will probably lose their jobs. Tom Rothman might go. Ghostcorp will probably fold. That has real world consequences. Sony Pictures was once the toast of the town. They were well respected, around 2002-2005. They had Spider-Man and Adam Sandler with a robust DVD market. They are NOT well respected at all anymore. They've become a joke.While I agree with your assessment of where the studio is at, it's an overestimation to suggest that Ghostbusters 2020 would somehow make them the talk of the town again if it were a hit, or that it'd be more than "another swing and a miss" if it bombed. 2016 was the big egg-on-face moment, now it'll just be part of a pattern if it's a flop.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amI gotta ask: Why do you keep saying this "you don't have to tell me" stuff? You aren't the only person reading this thread and not a lot of people realize how things work.I say it when you're responding directly to me because you're quoting my post.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amKevin Feige absolutely ran the show with Spider-Man Homecoming.Again, per Feige himself, you are not correct. He said himself, the beauty of the deal was that both parties got what they wanted: Spider-Man could appear in the MCU and Marvel would get some input on that, AND Amy Pascal would not lose creative control or the freedom to make the movies how she wanted to make them.
Styrofoam_Guy wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 9:27 pmIt is currently unknown if GB 2020 will be shown in China.The reason Ghostbusters (2016) wasn't shown in China was because it contained ghosts, and the Chinese have religious objections to ghosts. I would assume Ghostbusters 2020 is not going to be an exception.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 9:57 pmYeah this just just going back and forth and you seem to be misunderstanding a few things. Again. One more time from the top: I have first hand knowledge that this movie is the top priority at Sony which has been confirmed by other news outlets. So, you are incorrect. You can have an opinion on why you don't think it should be, or whatever. That's fine. But it's a fact. This isn't something I want to believe or even really care about(you just disagreed with me and then I explained why that was wrong and you kept thinking it was an opinion or something). It's the situation as it exists now. I work for a film production company and I deal with the Sony marketing people all the time(well not ALL the time but often enough. Too often lol). I've even seen some production stuff from this movie, which is a story in and of itself. I had no idea what I was looking at was Ghostbusters related until after the "Rust City" code name was revealed. If only I had known! Then I had heard there was a big announced coming in July(which I foolishly let slip here. I know what the announcement is & I had heard there was suppose to be a comic con reveal but something happened behind the scenes that delayed things and there's been radio silence ever since then).RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amSo here's something really important that I should repeat. Jumanji and Spider-Man are healthy franchises. Ghostbusters is not. Spider-Man and Jumanji are not original Sony IP. If you don't think that matters to a studio...I don't know what to say. It does. It just does. Again..it isn't something I've guessed at or it's an opinion of mine, it's something I've been told by marketing people I know who work @ Sony and have also read at deadline and variety. I mean, if you want to discount that, sure. But I can't debate things that aren't opinion.Good lord, man. The post you were replying to, I literally said that I mentioned it was wholly Sony-owned IP and that was important before you did. How you read my previous reply and think I was denying that?
Also, while Jumanji is technically not studio-owned IP, it's certainly not a Spider-Man kind of deal with someone taking a big chunk of the profits. Sony has retained the rights to the Jumanji stuff since the original movie in the '90s, so while Chris Van Allsburg has probably made plenty off of this new movie, I don't think Sony is beholden to anyone but him.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amYou seem to determined to think box-office is the only thing that matters at studios. It's not.Money is definitely the most important thing in Hollywood, and the most important thing to any business in a capitalist society. That's not to say ego isn't a thing, obviously, it definitely is, but I guarantee you, even people working overtime to accommodate people's pride are definitely navigating that with an eye toward how it can make them money first and foremost.
Ghostbusters is probably not the #1 priority at Sony right now BECAUSE Jumanji and Spider-Man are successful. In 2016, when Ghostbusters was a $144m tentpole blockbuster they were hoping would relaunch the franchise after 27 years, Spider-Man: Homecoming was still a year away and Jumanji was still being developed, that's when I buy it was their #1 priority, because they had nothing else to bank on. For a hit-starved studio like Sony, they're not going to just kick back because they raked in almost $2b on those last two franchise entry alone, they're going to invest in building those brands with Venom and Spider-Verse 2 (and, if the audience bites again, Jumanji 3). Meanwhile, Ghostbusters is an unexpected second chance to launch, one that they are inevitably going to be more cautious on, because Men in Black International was aiming for a similar audience and turned in a Ghostbusters (2016)-level performance.
I'll say I can believe Ghostbusters will move up in priority if Charlie's Angels bombs, although I still don't see them valuing it over Spider-Man (including Spider-Verse and Venom) or Jumanji. They've also got original IP in Zombieland 2: Double Tap coming up, which took so long it's basically a relaunch, as well as a new Grudge and a new Bad Boys (although, both being dumped in January is concerning).RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amIf GB2020 doesn't work it 100% will tarnish the Sony Pictures name. 10000%. That seems fairly obvious, right? If GB2020 doesn't work people will probably lose their jobs. Tom Rothman might go. Ghostcorp will probably fold. That has real world consequences. Sony Pictures was once the toast of the town. They were well respected, around 2002-2005. They had Spider-Man and Adam Sandler with a robust DVD market. They are NOT well respected at all anymore. They've become a joke.While I agree with your assessment of where the studio is at, it's an overestimation to suggest that Ghostbusters 2020 would somehow make them the talk of the town again if it were a hit, or that it'd be more than "another swing and a miss" if it bombed. 2016 was the big egg-on-face moment, now it'll just be part of a pattern if it's a flop.
Hard to say what it will mean if it's a success -- we still know so little about it that (and this is where I'll take anything Dan says with a grain of salt) we can't say what it will really mean for the future or what it would pave the way for. I will say, in 2016 we were hearing that they were thinking of launching a whole "Ghostbusters Cinematic Universe," with plans for Channing Tatum's movie, another mystery film, and a Slimer prequel. This time, I doubt we hear about anything concrete until the dust settles.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amI gotta ask: Why do you keep saying this "you don't have to tell me" stuff? You aren't the only person reading this thread and not a lot of people realize how things work.I say it when you're responding directly to me because you're quoting my post.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 5:32 amKevin Feige absolutely ran the show with Spider-Man Homecoming.Again, per Feige himself, you are not correct. He said himself, the beauty of the deal was that both parties got what they wanted: Spider-Man could appear in the MCU and Marvel would get some input on that, AND Amy Pascal would not lose creative control or the freedom to make the movies how she wanted to make them.Styrofoam_Guy wrote: ↑August 18th, 2019, 9:27 pmIt is currently unknown if GB 2020 will be shown in China.The reason Ghostbusters (2016) wasn't shown in China was because it contained ghosts, and the Chinese have religious objections to ghosts. I would assume Ghostbusters 2020 is not going to be an exception.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amYeah this just just going back and forth and you seem to be misunderstanding a few things. Again. One more time from the top: I have first hand knowledge that this movie is the top priority at Sony which has been confirmed by other news outlets. So, you are incorrect. You can have an opinion on why you don't think it should be, or whatever. That's fine. But it's a fact.Guarantee with absolute certainty that you are confusing "a major priority" with "the top priority." Top 5 is pretty big. However, in a theoretical situation where Sony was forced to choose between Spider-Man or Ghostbusters, or Jumanji and Ghostbusters, I guarantee you they don't choose the one that's still a big question mark in terms of box office success looking toward the future.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amAnother thing: of course money is important, please read what I said again. I said it's not the only important thing. Again, this isn't really fair because I work in film so I know what these people are really like. You don't work in the industry so you're at a bit of a disadvantage when discussing productions.I didn't deny it was important. As with the above comment, both things can be partially true. Again, if forced to choose, Hollywood is going to choose financial success over ego. It's that simple. That doesn't deny any level of ego existing and being an obstacle. It just says that even then, money is going to eke out a priority. Sony could have all the pride in the world and it won't help if their next twenty movies bomb.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amSo when I say Kevin Feige was heavily involved in casting and making Spider-Man Homecoming(again less so on Far From Home) you'll have to take my word for it. Or not. I'm a stranger on the Internet. Maybe I'm really Jason Reitman(I'm not) or maybe I'm a burger flipper at McDonald's(again. No). But Here's how the situation more or less works: Marvel makes the story and casting choices(because they aren't just signing on for a Sony movie), Sony pays the bill. Yes Sony has to agree to the casting and directing hires. But they don't actually make them. They just say "Ok. We agree". If they don't agree then well..that's one thing I'm not sure on what happens.Well, again, I'm taking Kevin Feige's word over yours. He said this, and you yourself Identify him as trustworthy, which makes your position very strange. It's even stranger when your description in this quoted comment describes Sony doing most of the work. Feige may approve the writers, but then Sony is the company that actually delivers the script. They put in the work actually writing the movie, Marvel gives some notes, and then it's still down to a director who is beholden to Sony to cast the film, hire a crew, and realize a script written by Sony. Marvel's oversight on these things per your own description is getting to approve some key creatives and giving script notes.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amDon't get me wrong. Sony probably won't get any props for making Ghostbusters a success again(if that happens). But people will lose their jobs if it fails. Ghostcorp is overhead that Sony is paying for. If GB2020 flops, there's no reason to keep that overhead anymore. So goodbye Ghostcorp. Which means goodbye Ivan, good bye Dan. You don't think that will happen because they created it?No, because again, this was stuff I stated I agreed with. Yes, I think Ghost Corps will be in big trouble if this fails (although, they do oversee merch, so there's maybe some room for a drastically reduced GC if this fails since that's still a long-term winner for Sony). I don't think a corporation like Sony is greatly concerned about firing two old guys who haven't had a notable hit between them in a long time, no matter how strong their legacy is. Hey, that sounds like money mattering more than ego...
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amHow did you get the impression I thought you were denying that Ghostbusters was Sony owned IP?You said, ostensibly to me, "Spider-Man and Jumanji are not original Sony IP. If you don't think that matters to a studio...I don't know what to say. It does. It just does."
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 9:01 amDude. Really? You're trying to say I maybe misinterpreted something? I'm not the only employee at my company. It isn't just me saying these things. Again, both deadline and variety have noted that this movie is the top priority right now at Sony. All hands on deck. There are only so many was to interpret "Ghostbusters is our top dog for the next 8 quarters". You have to do some pretty crazy mental gymnastics to misinterpret what that means. I've been doing this for 11 years(oh god that's depressing..). I know how the system works. Trust me, there's nothing to misinterpret.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amYeah this just just going back and forth and you seem to be misunderstanding a few things. Again. One more time from the top: I have first hand knowledge that this movie is the top priority at Sony which has been confirmed by other news outlets. So, you are incorrect. You can have an opinion on why you don't think it should be, or whatever. That's fine. But it's a fact.Guarantee with absolute certainty that you are confusing "a major priority" with "the top priority." Top 5 is pretty big. However, in a theoretical situation where Sony was forced to choose between Spider-Man or Ghostbusters, or Jumanji and Ghostbusters, I guarantee you they don't choose the one that's still a big question mark in terms of box office success looking toward the future.
Obviously, ideally, they would prefer Ghostbusters is also successful, and they can have a hit which they don't have to share with anyone, but I'm saying even if that's a major, major priority, success is still up in the air, and Sony is not going to put all of its eggs in a risky basket after they just did that exact same thing four years ago and it didn't work.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amAnother thing: of course money is important, please read what I said again. I said it's not the only important thing. Again, this isn't really fair because I work in film so I know what these people are really like. You don't work in the industry so you're at a bit of a disadvantage when discussing productions.I didn't deny it was important. As with the above comment, both things can be partially true. Again, if forced to choose, Hollywood is going to choose financial success over ego. It's that simple. That doesn't deny any level of ego existing and being an obstacle. It just says that even then, money is going to eke out a priority. Sony could have all the pride in the world and it won't help if their next twenty movies bomb.
Also, I am plenty well-educated here. Let's just say we both have industry experience. I'm not doubting what you've heard and seen, I'm doubting the ways you've interpreted it.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amSo when I say Kevin Feige was heavily involved in casting and making Spider-Man Homecoming(again less so on Far From Home) you'll have to take my word for it. Or not. I'm a stranger on the Internet. Maybe I'm really Jason Reitman(I'm not) or maybe I'm a burger flipper at McDonald's(again. No). But Here's how the situation more or less works: Marvel makes the story and casting choices(because they aren't just signing on for a Sony movie), Sony pays the bill. Yes Sony has to agree to the casting and directing hires. But they don't actually make them. They just say "Ok. We agree". If they don't agree then well..that's one thing I'm not sure on what happens.Well, again, I'm taking Kevin Feige's word over yours. He said this, and you yourself Identify him as trustworthy, which makes your position very strange. It's even stranger when your description in this quoted comment describes Sony doing most of the work. Feige may approve the writers, but then Sony is the company that actually delivers the script. They put in the work actually writing the movie, Marvel gives some notes, and then it's still down to a director who is beholden to Sony to cast the film, hire a crew, and realize a script written by Sony. Marvel's oversight on these things per your own description is getting to approve some key creatives and giving script notes.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amDon't get me wrong. Sony probably won't get any props for making Ghostbusters a success again(if that happens). But people will lose their jobs if it fails. Ghostcorp is overhead that Sony is paying for. If GB2020 flops, there's no reason to keep that overhead anymore. So goodbye Ghostcorp. Which means goodbye Ivan, good bye Dan. You don't think that will happen because they created it?No, because again, this was stuff I stated I agreed with. Yes, I think Ghost Corps will be in big trouble if this fails (although, they do oversee merch, so there's maybe some room for a drastically reduced GC if this fails since that's still a long-term winner for Sony). I don't think a corporation like Sony is greatly concerned about firing two old guys who haven't had a notable hit between them in a long time, no matter how strong their legacy is. Hey, that sounds like money mattering more than ego...RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 3:36 amHow did you get the impression I thought you were denying that Ghostbusters was Sony owned IP?You said, ostensibly to me, "Spider-Man and Jumanji are not original Sony IP. If you don't think that matters to a studio...I don't know what to say. It does. It just does."
Davideverona wrote:RichardLess, I hope you'll write something about all the behind the scenes stuff of GB20 once the movie is out.Same. I'd love to hear what the SDCC announcement was going to be.
ShiftyHenry wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 1:36 pmAnd why got postponed. My bet is on "Original Ghostbusters involvement" but negotiations dragged a bit too long making impossible to announce it at SDCC.Davideverona wrote:RichardLess, I hope you'll write something about all the behind the scenes stuff of GB20 once the movie is out.Same. I'd love to hear what the SDCC announcement was going to be.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmI guess somewhere along the line I gave you the impression ego mattered more than money. Perhaps I misspoke(err typed?). I meant money is not ALL of the equation. It's a lot of it. Obviously. But Hollywood is a town full of major financial mistakes made and flops made simply because of ego. That's all I was trying to say there.What you said was "Box office can be but a small slice of the potential pie." Box office is never going to be less than the biggest piece of the pie. It might only be slightly bigger than ego, but it's going to be bigger. We agree that there have been big swings and bombs based on ego, but I'm saying someone thought sating those egos also made financial sense on paper in some way beforehand.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmMaybe I should explain what top priority means in the entertainment industry. It doesn't mean all other projects get put on hold or put on the back burner. It means the best people in the company are to focus on making sure Jason has everything he needs, that nothing major leaks etc. Here's what it means. Now this is a fictional scenario, but this is what it would mean. Let's pretend Ghostbusters and Spider-Man and Jumanji are getting a release next summer. It's Super Bowl time and Sony is going to purchase a single ad space in the 4th quarter. Which movie gets the spot? Which movie does Sony need to convince people to see? Which franchise needs the boost? That's what the top priority means. In the end Spider-Man is probably more valuable to Sony. But Spider-Man Jumanji AND Ghostbusters? 3 healthy franchises? Now they are cooking. It's not a matter of them saying "Oh Ghostbusters is the most important thing now and forever". It's just them saying "We need to make sure this movie reaches its potential". That's all.In your Superbowl hypothetical, I'm saying they choose Spider-Man no question. I know how the industry works, and it should be clear I'm not saying "now and forever." I have the same understanding of the industry as you do, with your many years in it. And I would stake literally anything on Sony valuing Spider-Man and Jumanji over Ghostbusters simply because those movies aren't question marks. Spider-Man and Jumanji just made Sony over $2b and they don't have any other massive hits to gloat about right now.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmAs for Spider-Man. How it works is, on the sequel, the director had some ideas on where he wanted to go, Kevin had some ideas based on what's important for the MCU(the Aftermath of Endgame plays a major role), Sony says "Ok cool. Here's the money", the writer has some of his own ideas, they all probably had a story conference.Well, the problem we're having now is the scenario you describe in your post is the same largely hands-off setup I'm describing. Marvel is not running Spider-Man instead of Sony by helping them fit it in the overarching MCU plot or approving certain creatives (director, writer, star). That still suggests Sony found those people and Marvel simply agreed. People like to make it sound like Marvel essentially makes the movie and hands it to Sony, and Sony just puts it out. What you and I are both describing is a scenario where both companies worked together to conceive a new version of the character (in high school), found the guy and agreed on him (Tom Holland), agreed on a director and writers, and then Sony went and had the freedom to make a movie that Marvel lent Tony Stark to, and Marvel made movies Sony lent Peter Parker to.
If you watch the bonus features on Homecoming, Feige was heavily involved. It was his call to hire Tom Holland. They all wanted to bring Spider-Man back to high school. It was Kevin's call to have RDJ in there.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 2:07 pmHere's a link to Vareity https://variety.com/2019/film/news/paul ... 203236578/RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmI guess somewhere along the line I gave you the impression ego mattered more than money. Perhaps I misspoke(err typed?). I meant money is not ALL of the equation. It's a lot of it. Obviously. But Hollywood is a town full of major financial mistakes made and flops made simply because of ego. That's all I was trying to say there.What you said was "Box office can be but a small slice of the potential pie." Box office is never going to be less than the biggest piece of the pie. It might only be slightly bigger than ego, but it's going to be bigger. We agree that there have been big swings and bombs based on ego, but I'm saying someone thought sating those egos also made financial sense on paper in some way beforehand.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmMaybe I should explain what top priority means in the entertainment industry. It doesn't mean all other projects get put on hold or put on the back burner. It means the best people in the company are to focus on making sure Jason has everything he needs, that nothing major leaks etc. Here's what it means. Now this is a fictional scenario, but this is what it would mean. Let's pretend Ghostbusters and Spider-Man and Jumanji are getting a release next summer. It's Super Bowl time and Sony is going to purchase a single ad space in the 4th quarter. Which movie gets the spot? Which movie does Sony need to convince people to see? Which franchise needs the boost? That's what the top priority means. In the end Spider-Man is probably more valuable to Sony. But Spider-Man Jumanji AND Ghostbusters? 3 healthy franchises? Now they are cooking. It's not a matter of them saying "Oh Ghostbusters is the most important thing now and forever". It's just them saying "We need to make sure this movie reaches its potential". That's all.In your Superbowl hypothetical, I'm saying they choose Spider-Man no question. I know how the industry works, and it should be clear I'm not saying "now and forever." I have the same understanding of the industry as you do, with your many years in it. And I would stake literally anything on Sony valuing Spider-Man and Jumanji over Ghostbusters simply because those movies aren't question marks. Spider-Man and Jumanji just made Sony over $2b and they don't have any other massive hits to gloat about right now.
Now, if you asked me a slightly different question, I would definitely agree that Ghostbusters is the property they'd most like to rehabilitate. 2016 wasn't a good box office year, but it was probably a great merch year. It's the the first big movie on their plate for 2020, as far as I can tell. But again, if for some reason, a hypothetical scenario arose where it was "finish Ghostbusters 2020 or keep Spider-Man," I have no doubt they're dropping GB2020. Spider-Man represents not just the MCU stuff, but Spider-Verse, Venom, Morbius, etc. They might hesitate more if it were a choice between GB2020 and Jumanji, but I kinda feel like 2016 makes Jumanji look like a safer bet
Also, while I admit I haven't yet found the Feige/Pascal interview where they talked about Spider-Man (I looked -- I feel like it was NYT or maybe USA Today), I also just looked at Deadline's GB2020 articles (there are only four), and none of them have any content about it being the studio's top priority (or any type of analysis in that area at all -- they're all short and pretty straightforward about the announcement, the teaser, Wolfhard/Coon casting, and Rudd casting).RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmAs for Spider-Man. How it works is, on the sequel, the director had some ideas on where he wanted to go, Kevin had some ideas based on what's important for the MCU(the Aftermath of Endgame plays a major role), Sony says "Ok cool. Here's the money", the writer has some of his own ideas, they all probably had a story conference.Well, the problem we're having now is the scenario you describe in your post is the same largely hands-off setup I'm describing. Marvel is not running Spider-Man instead of Sony by helping them fit it in the overarching MCU plot or approving certain creatives (director, writer, star). That still suggests Sony found those people and Marvel simply agreed. People like to make it sound like Marvel essentially makes the movie and hands it to Sony, and Sony just puts it out. What you and I are both describing is a scenario where both companies worked together to conceive a new version of the character (in high school), found the guy and agreed on him (Tom Holland), agreed on a director and writers, and then Sony went and had the freedom to make a movie that Marvel lent Tony Stark to, and Marvel made movies Sony lent Peter Parker to.
If you watch the bonus features on Homecoming, Feige was heavily involved. It was his call to hire Tom Holland. They all wanted to bring Spider-Man back to high school. It was Kevin's call to have RDJ in there.
As with so many things here, we agree in theory but don't in execution.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 2:07 pmKevin Feige cast Tom Holland. Tom Hollands first appearance was in Civil War. Sony had to sign off but Kevin did the leg work. His screen test was with RDJ in Atlanta. Homecoming filmed in the Marvel studio space in Atlanta. Homecoming had ILM has the primary VFX vendor. Sony Imageworks did all the other Spider-Man films(for obvious reasons) Sony Imageworks was a subcontractor on Homecoming film. Disney owns ILM. You starting to see the pattern here? Michael Giachinno did the score after having done Doctor Strange for Marvel. I could be wrong but I don't think Michael Giachinno has scored a Sony film before this. ILM being a vendor on a Sony Spider-Man movie should big a big clue who was making the calls here.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmI guess somewhere along the line I gave you the impression ego mattered more than money. Perhaps I misspoke(err typed?). I meant money is not ALL of the equation. It's a lot of it. Obviously. But Hollywood is a town full of major financial mistakes made and flops made simply because of ego. That's all I was trying to say there.What you said was "Box office can be but a small slice of the potential pie." Box office is never going to be less than the biggest piece of the pie. It might only be slightly bigger than ego, but it's going to be bigger. We agree that there have been big swings and bombs based on ego, but I'm saying someone thought sating those egos also made financial sense on paper in some way beforehand.RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmMaybe I should explain what top priority means in the entertainment industry. It doesn't mean all other projects get put on hold or put on the back burner. It means the best people in the company are to focus on making sure Jason has everything he needs, that nothing major leaks etc. Here's what it means. Now this is a fictional scenario, but this is what it would mean. Let's pretend Ghostbusters and Spider-Man and Jumanji are getting a release next summer. It's Super Bowl time and Sony is going to purchase a single ad space in the 4th quarter. Which movie gets the spot? Which movie does Sony need to convince people to see? Which franchise needs the boost? That's what the top priority means. In the end Spider-Man is probably more valuable to Sony. But Spider-Man Jumanji AND Ghostbusters? 3 healthy franchises? Now they are cooking. It's not a matter of them saying "Oh Ghostbusters is the most important thing now and forever". It's just them saying "We need to make sure this movie reaches its potential". That's all.In your Superbowl hypothetical, I'm saying they choose Spider-Man no question. I know how the industry works, and it should be clear I'm not saying "now and forever." I have the same understanding of the industry as you do, with your many years in it. And I would stake literally anything on Sony valuing Spider-Man and Jumanji over Ghostbusters simply because those movies aren't question marks. Spider-Man and Jumanji just made Sony over $2b and they don't have any other massive hits to gloat about right now.
Now, if you asked me a slightly different question, I would definitely agree that Ghostbusters is the property they'd most like to rehabilitate. 2016 wasn't a good box office year, but it was probably a great merch year. It's the the first big movie on their plate for 2020, as far as I can tell. But again, if for some reason, a hypothetical scenario arose where it was "finish Ghostbusters 2020 or keep Spider-Man," I have no doubt they're dropping GB2020. Spider-Man represents not just the MCU stuff, but Spider-Verse, Venom, Morbius, etc. They might hesitate more if it were a choice between GB2020 and Jumanji, but I kinda feel like 2016 makes Jumanji look like a safer bet
Also, while I admit I haven't yet found the Feige/Pascal interview where they talked about Spider-Man (I looked -- I feel like it was NYT or maybe USA Today), I also just looked at Deadline's GB2020 articles (there are only four), and none of them have any content about it being the studio's top priority (or any type of analysis in that area at all -- they're all short and pretty straightforward about the announcement, the teaser, Wolfhard/Coon casting, and Rudd casting).RichardLess wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 12:14 pmAs for Spider-Man. How it works is, on the sequel, the director had some ideas on where he wanted to go, Kevin had some ideas based on what's important for the MCU(the Aftermath of Endgame plays a major role), Sony says "Ok cool. Here's the money", the writer has some of his own ideas, they all probably had a story conference.Well, the problem we're having now is the scenario you describe in your post is the same largely hands-off setup I'm describing. Marvel is not running Spider-Man instead of Sony by helping them fit it in the overarching MCU plot or approving certain creatives (director, writer, star). That still suggests Sony found those people and Marvel simply agreed. People like to make it sound like Marvel essentially makes the movie and hands it to Sony, and Sony just puts it out. What you and I are both describing is a scenario where both companies worked together to conceive a new version of the character (in high school), found the guy and agreed on him (Tom Holland), agreed on a director and writers, and then Sony went and had the freedom to make a movie that Marvel lent Tony Stark to, and Marvel made movies Sony lent Peter Parker to.
If you watch the bonus features on Homecoming, Feige was heavily involved. It was his call to hire Tom Holland. They all wanted to bring Spider-Man back to high school. It was Kevin's call to have RDJ in there.
As with so many things here, we agree in theory but don't in execution.
ShiftyHenry wrote: ↑August 19th, 2019, 1:36 pmWhen it happens, and it will happen, I'll say "this is the announcement I thought was coming in July".Davideverona wrote:RichardLess, I hope you'll write something about all the behind the scenes stuff of GB20 once the movie is out.Same. I'd love to hear what the SDCC announcement was going to be.
RichardLess wrote: ↑August 20th, 2019, 10:44 amHere's a link to Vareity https://variety.com/2019/film/news/paul ... 203236578/I have to give you a hard time about the semantics! Isn't that our entire board relationship?
Yes it says "huge" not "top". Don't give me a hard time over the semantics of that. You're going to say "I never said it wasn't a huge priority" which is true you didn't. Plus Mixed with what I've been told? There's another article from The Verge that mentions the trade papers talking about what a priority this movie is over a Sony. The word "top" again, isn't mentioned.
So you've got me being told it's a top priority, Vareity more or less confirming that by saying its a huge priority, and the verge again talking about its place as a priority.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 20th, 2019, 12:43 pmVery cool. It was fun. I extend my hand to you for an Internet handshake. You kept me on my toes, were very civil and I respect that. ThanksRichardLess wrote: ↑August 20th, 2019, 10:44 amHere's a link to Vareity https://variety.com/2019/film/news/paul ... 203236578/I have to give you a hard time about the semantics! Isn't that our entire board relationship?
Yes it says "huge" not "top". Don't give me a hard time over the semantics of that. You're going to say "I never said it wasn't a huge priority" which is true you didn't. Plus Mixed with what I've been told? There's another article from The Verge that mentions the trade papers talking about what a priority this movie is over a Sony. The word "top" again, isn't mentioned.
So you've got me being told it's a top priority, Vareity more or less confirming that by saying its a huge priority, and the verge again talking about its place as a priority.
My POV is that we were specifically debating "#1" vs. "one of Sony's top projects." Also, "priority" is not the same as "their most valuable project on the slate," which is the impression that I had of your position before. In any case, I think we know where we each stand and there's no need to keep going now.
droidguy1119 wrote: ↑August 20th, 2019, 2:25 pm Hehehehehe, there goes Marvel's involvement in Sony Spider-Man...Isn't that weird? It's like they knew we were just debating this very topic. I just came here to post this very thing. Maybe Marvel read my post and was like "you know what? This Richardless guy is right! We deserve more money!" Lollol.
https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-feig ... 202672545/
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