[crusader_x]

I received an email Tuesday night from the Executive Vice President of Litigation for Sony / Columbia Pictures stating that it was brought to their attention that our group (The Suncoast Ghostbusters) was using the logo and images owned by Sony / Columbia Pictures to "promote services provided by Suncoast Ghostbusters."

I then proceeded to call and leave voicemails at the Litigation department. Later in the day Wednesday I received a call back from a Paralegal who works in that office (who I will not name but call SONY PL). This is some of the excerpts from our conversation that is paraphased when necessary and not meant to represent an offical statement by Sony / Columbia Pictures:

ME: In the letter you guys said we were promoting our services, but we aren't offering any services. We volunteer our time to support cancer research charities (The ACS and the LLS). Nothing we do is for profit.

SONY PL: The issue then is using the trademarked image of the ghost in the prohibition sign and the word "Ghostbusters" for any kind of self promotion on your website even if you are just volunteering your time.

ME: But our logo is a modified version of the "no ghost" logo.

SONY PL: We passed it around our office and had everyone look at it and we felt it was too close to our trademark. Also, we did see the "no ghost" logo in use in some of your photos, such as the arm patches and the logo on the car door.

ME: Are you trying to say that I can't have the "no ghost" logo on my personal car for personal use?

SONY PL: .... Let's just say, we'd prefer if you didn't.

ME: But there are so many other groups and clubs out there using their variation of the "no ghost", as well as the actual "no ghost", and the title "Ghostbusters", why would you pick on us when we are only a month old and haven't even done an event yet?

SONY PL: We are aware of the other groups who use this, and technically they are all in violation of the trademark too, but they have not been brought to our attention.

She was more than courteous and seemed really sympathetic to our cause and how we represented the Ghostbusters franchise, but once someone brought it to their attention, they seemed bound to act according to the interests who control the actual trademarked image and title. I let her know our group would comply and she indicated all we needed to do was remove our logo and stop using the phrase "Ghostbusters" on our website and everything would be ok.

Some of the things I learned from this:

- If someone issues a formal complaint to Sony, they are forced to investigate on behalf of their controlling interests and do what they need to do to protect their trademarks (Can't fault them for that).

- They are aware of the use of their trademarks but seem to want to turn a blind eye to its use unless someone specifically complains about a group or person, which means someone turned in our group in particular and they don't just roam the internet looking for violations.

- All groups using the "no ghost" logo or an relative variation of it and/or the phrase "Ghostbusters" is in violation of their intellectual property and can be told to remove that content. Of course she would not say to what degree the logo must be altered, as I have heard everything from 30% to 40% alteration, but she did say she recommended we just replace the logo with an empty prohibition sign.

- Sony does not care what your group is or is not doing by representing Ghostbusters, whether making a profit or just doing charity events, any publication of their images and phrase on your website is considered promotion and is a violation.

- Sony does not officially endorse any fan franchise and there is no process to appeal to them to do so.

So someone deliberately "turned us in" in order to try to get us shut down, and of course the Sony PL would not confirm or deny who it was, but I have a strong idea of who it was. The question now becomes, what's to stop this person, or anyone for that matter, from reporting any of the other franchises, websites, clubs, etc and having us all shut down? And has anything like this ever happened to another Ghostbusters group/website before? I can't think of an instance of this happening.

Again, nothing in the above text is meant to represent an official statement from Sony / Columbia Pictures.
PM me if you need additional information.

[AJ Quick]

Wow.

I'm sure we all know exactly who did this... pretty f****g pathetic.

[Boomerjinks]

Well that was quick.

[rafj27]

damn, shady.

[Evil Stripe]

I work for a major film company, and have had chats with the licensing team about issues like this.
They will go after anyone who is profiting from copyright usage, or anyone who is besmirching their copyright in an unsavoury manner. I.e acting an idiot or using bad language etc.

They also scour the public forums for instances that they wouldn't want associated with their copyright. It's icy ground to say the least. Yes we own our uniforms/costumes, but we dont own the copyright.

Doesn't help if you get snitched on.

[GB Ty]

As stated, that sucks. To what degree can they do to you? As long as you don't use the logo, or the title 'Ghostbusters', they really don't care? Sony hasn't forced you to disband your group, and/or cease your activities have they? Hope the whole thing blows over somehow, also that it doesn't happen to anyone else. I wish you guys the best of luck.

[deadderek]

You gotta be shitting me.

[Evil Stripe]

What they could potentially do, is visit this site ( if they haven't already,) and order that any GB reference is removed, or shut it down. It's the same in the 501st. Lucasfilm can visit the public forums, and if they see items they don't like, they will feed it back. Some of the posts here could give them a field day.

Hopefully nothing will come of it.

[NeoSaturn]

I seen that happen before, unrelated to Ghostbusters. Most companies tend to look the other way. That is until someone brings to their "official" attention then they are force to act.

It sucks

[Chace]

What they could potentially do, is visit this site ( if they haven't already,) and order that any GB reference is removed, or shut it down. It's the same in the 501st. Lucasfilm can visit the public forums, and if they see items they don't like, they will feed it back. Some of the posts here could give them a field day.

Bullpussy

Until they get rid of net neutrality, this is still the wild west. Move the hosting server overseas (If it isn't already) and as long as it doesn't involve kiddie porn you can do what you want. Hell there are several sites that specialize in Disney and other character porn using the copyrighted images and names.

Sure they'd rather we didn’t have their logo on our cars (Without paying them of course) but the same can be said about Dr.Pepper.....yet I've been at several car shows with this guy...



The law as I understand it (as a friend of Ron Daniels) is that as long as you disclaim that you are not affiliated with Sony and they own all copyrights, and as long as your not generating personal revenue with the property you are within the law.

F-em if they try to engage a C+D FIGHT IT. I'm pretty sure that either you'd win, or they wouldn't feel the benefit worth the expense of pursuing it in court....not to mention the bad press of an evil corporation attempting to stop loving fans from helping charities.

THAT is why Lucas never fought the 501st. Not because he's a great guy. not because he's not greedy, but because in the end its more trouble than its worth and would present him with a bad image (Which he'd rather do with special editions and shitty prequels)

And that's also why once a complaint was issued Sony had to look into it and send a warning letter....just in case someone was profiting or defaming them.

Sure "TECHNICALLY" we're all in violation....but that's because it hasn't been formally challenged in court and they don't want to lose the legal right to punish the profiteers by attacking the charity based groups.

In the end, they'll get my franchise when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

[crusader_x]

I work for a major film company, and have had chats with the licensing team about issues like this.
They will go after anyone who is profiting from copyright usage, or anyone who is besmirching their copyright in an unsavoury manner. I.e acting an idiot or using bad language etc.

They also scour the public forums for instances that they wouldn't want associated with their copyright. It's icy ground to say the least. Yes we own our uniforms/costumes, but we dont own the copyright.

Doesn't help if you get snitched on.

I understand, but we weren't profiting in any way and I made that clear and she acknowledged that. But she stated that any use of the image or name on a website has to be authorized by them or they can have it removed as it's their trademark.

As stated, that sucks. To what degree can they do to you? As long as you don't use the logo, or the title 'Ghostbusters', they really don't care? Sony hasn't forced you to disband your group, and/or cease your activities have they? Hope the whole thing blows over somehow, also that it doesn't happen to anyone else. I wish you guys the best of luck.

They didn't threaten anything they just made a request that we take down the image and the name "Ghostbusters". She had suggestions for how to continue to do our thing without their trademarks so it's clear they aren't trying to disband us.

What they could potentially do, is visit this site ( if they haven't already,) and order that any GB reference is removed, or shut it down. It's the same in the 501st. Lucasfilm can visit the public forums, and if they see items they don't like, they will feed it back. Some of the posts here could give them a field day.

Hopefully nothing will come of it.

Yes they just requested the Suncoast Logo removed and the word "Ghostbusters". But from what I gathered Sony does not send their litigation department out looking for violations, but they have to deal with it when someone outside reports this directly to them. She didn't give a deadline or anything formal, she just said she'd check our website in a few weeks and as long as it looks like we're complying they're ok with it.

The law as I understand it (as a friend of Ron Daniels) is that as long as you disclaim that you are not affiliated with Sony and they own all copyrights, and as long as your not generating personal revenue with the property you are within the law.

F-em if they try to engage a C+D FIGHT IT. I'm pretty sure that either you'd win, or they wouldn't feel the benefit worth the expense of pursuing it in court....not to mention the bad press of an evil corporation attempting to stop loving fans from helping charities.

Well I asked what we would need to do in order to make ourselves valid, official, get permisison, etc. and she said "Sony doesn't do that". I don't want to wait for a cease & desist because I think it's better to show your willingness to cooperate and not take it to the next level. And not to mention I don't have the time or resources to fight this. However, they are risking enormous backlash from the fan community if they tried to shut down one little group among legions.

I don't think we have a choice at the moment but to comply with what they want unless we decide to seek legal counsel. But once you indicate you're going to fight them, you can't turn back.

[Foom Man]

While I have no idea who turned on you guys (I'm sort of out of the loop on such a thing), that's a damn shame to hear.

Thanks for posting this info though- it's certainly worth circulating.

[crusader_x]

While I have no idea who turned on you guys (I'm sort of out of the loop on such a thing), that's a damn shame to hear.

Thanks for posting this info though- it's certainly worth circulating.

Well just to be clear we don't know who did this either, just a suspicion and I won't accuse anyone unless I have proof.

[Chace]

Well just to be clear we don't know who did this either, just a suspicion and I won't accuse anyone unless I have proof.

While I appreciate you trying to be diplomatic, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a mom who saw a flyer and thought Sony should be involved.

I don't think we have a choice at the moment but to comply with what they want unless we decide to seek legal counsel. But once you indicate you're going to fight them, you can't turn back.

Seeking out legal advice however is not necessarily fighting them. If you have any friends/family in the law, just see what they think.

Basically I'm saying, do what they want for now, find out for sure what your legal rights are, and operate within those rights weather they like it or not. And if they try to attack after that contact the local media and explain the case and ask for help in the fight. It'd be GREAT publicity for a media outlet and more importantly a law firm.

[crusader_x]

Seeking out legal advice however is not necessarily fighting them. If you have any friends/family in the law, just see what they think.

Basically I'm saying, do what they want for now, find out for sure what your legal rights are, and operate within those rights weather they like it or not. And if they try to attack after that contact the local media and explain the case and ask for help in the fight. It'd be GREAT publicity for a media outlet and more importantly a law firm.

I agree with you on that.

[tk1055]

I have seen this happen as well. It is a hard thing to go through, emotionally. I used to make Green Lantern rings for the guys over on the GL Message board and got a C and D from Warner Brothers. I never made any profit off of them only asked for shipping and materials. The sad thing is I found out who turned me in, another ring builder was upset that his weren't selling because nobody wanted size 15 rings that looked like they were made out of Play-doh.

[The Roach On Twelve]

[Phish4dinner]

Wow that's ridiculous.. Sony obviously doesn't care about anything they aren't losing money on. They do turn a blind eye to sites like these because if anything, places like this just acts as free advertising for them. Which makes them more money than they would lose from other people having products that Sony themselves do not even sell. Somebody definately brought this to Sony's attention. That's WAY too shady.

On the other hand, Maybe it was Bill Murray trying to stop GB3 from the inside out

[Knightspast81]

In the end, they'll get my franchise when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

My sentiments exactly...if Sony were to shut one of us down, all of us would/should get involved...and I don't understand why we can't have a working relationship with Sony like the 501st does with Lucasfilm. Hell, Dan Aykroyd knows about all of us, loves us, and supports what we do! This should be a no brainer....

[ayame_x]

If someone saw our car, saw me, and decided to turn us in how in the world would they know our car had anything to do with the Suncoast Ghostbusters name? There is nothing on the car with that name and we have no business cards that we have given out. We have only promoted the Suncoast Ghostbusters here and on facebook. And not that it's anyone's business but since we have started the group, I have not taken our car with the Roof Rack (which is the most identifiable thing) on it to any jobs or to the office. The only thing it has on it is a no-ghost logo and the striping and who would ever think that is a problem worth mentioning to Sony (and besides, the car was never the complaint - it was the website that was brought to their attention). Do people see an "Autobot" decal on a car and make a phone call? No, only desperate people who hate others do things like this...

That's all I have to say.


Dawn

[AJ Quick]

Its pretty suspicious.

Guy has a franchise. Kicks people out of franchise. Those guys start a franchise and get turned in to Sony a while later.
Guy gets new members for Franchise. Guy is huge douche. Members all leave franchise and start their own.
New franchise gets turned in to Sony in like 2 weeks... people come up with excuses and douche denys it.

1 week from now. GBFans gets shut down because of douche.

[Phish4dinner]

1 week from now. GBFans gets shut down because of douche.

Then douche will forever have to run in fear

[BCarn]

Definitely echoing the sentiment that this is a shame. I know I'd be pretty upset of this ever happened to us.

Definitely something worth taking a look at. I'm interested to see how this all pans out, keep us updated.

[Foom Man]

Hmm. This makes me wonder if I should put a more to-the-point disclaimer on Ghostbusters United.

[BCarn]

Hmm. This makes me wonder if I should put a more to-the-point disclaimer on Ghostbusters United.

Certainly couldn't hurt.

[Foom Man]

"Ghostbusters United, as well as all of the franchises listed on this site, are in no way affiliated with Columbia Pictures. We are simply fans with the ambition to work on our hobbies together to hopefully make the world a funner and better place. All teams at Ghostbusters United are non-profits that offer their services at no cost."

Any good? Suggestions?

[ThrowingChicken]

If someone saw our car, saw me, and decided to turn us in how in the world would they know our car had anything to do with the Suncoast Ghostbusters name? There is nothing on the car with that name and we have no business cards that we have given out. We have only promoted the Suncoast Ghostbusters here and on facebook. And not that it's anyone's business but since we have started the group, I have not taken our car with the Roof Rack (which is the most identifiable thing) on it to any jobs or to the office. The only thing it has on it is a no-ghost logo and the striping and who would ever think that is a problem worth mentioning to Sony (and besides, the car was never the complaint - it was the website that was brought to their attention). Do people see an "Autobot" decal on a car and make a phone call? No, only desperate people who hate others do things like this...

That's all I have to say.


Dawn

I don't know who did it. I just know that whoever it was is a real douche and should be effing ashamed of themselves. But, I gave a friend two things: A photo of your car (side shot, no license plate), and your name, and in about 5 minutes they found your FB page, your group's FB page, and your group's website. That doesn't necessarily mean this person did not do it, but the belief that you guys can't be found through that route, by someone far outside of this hobby, is false.

[ayame_x]

Might want to reconsider the non-profit word, it is an official legal term for people with 501(c)(3)'s or similar designations from the IRS. None of us are technical non profits that I know of, we just do this without accepting a profit (difference). Just my thoughts...

Dawn

[Foom Man]

Might want to reconsider the non-profit word, it is an official legal term for people with 501(c)(3)'s or similar designations from the IRS. None of us are technical non profits that I know of, we just do this without accepting a profit (difference). Just my thoughts...

Dawn

Good point. I'm in no way a legal expert, but if someone out there knew a smarter way to word this I'd gladly put it up on the site. I'll take out the non-profit terminology.

[ayame_x]

If someone saw our car, saw me, and decided to turn us in how in the world would they know our car had anything to do with the Suncoast Ghostbusters name? There is nothing on the car with that name and we have no business cards that we have given out. We have only promoted the Suncoast Ghostbusters here and on facebook. And not that it's anyone's business but since we have started the group, I have not taken our car with the Roof Rack (which is the most identifiable thing) on it to any jobs or to the office. The only thing it has on it is a no-ghost logo and the striping and who would ever think that is a problem worth mentioning to Sony (and besides, the car was never the complaint - it was the website that was brought to their attention). Do people see an "Autobot" decal on a car and make a phone call? No, only desperate people who hate others do things like this...

That's all I have to say.


Dawn

I don't know who did it. I just know that whoever it was is a real douche and should be effing ashamed of themselves. But, I gave a friend two things: A photo of your car (side shot, no license plate), and your name, and in about 5 minutes they found your FB page, your group's FB page, and your group's website. That doesn't necessarily mean this person did not do it, but the belief that you guys can't be found through that route, by someone far outside of this hobby, is false.

That is pretty suprising since my privacy settings are such that only people already friended to me can see me or my pics online. Are you sure this person isn't already my friend? I'd be interested to know if those privacy settings actually work because I could only test that out with people who aren't my friends.