[deadderek]

Nobody was more supportive of Leslie and the reboot than I was. We, YHS, made an entire video for her full of fan support from around the world. After all was said and done, the movie was mediocre at best and didn’t make money. It’s a movie business; the key word is business. She cane off really dumb and illogical in her statements, and it just feeds into the Twitter tolls anyways.

I'm not a huge fan of the reboot (very meh 6/10) but the sheer amount of hatred towards her was completely uncalled for.

I made sure to send in my video "a lotta love from Michigan" in hopes she would know not all GB fans are a bunch of dickless Pecks.

[robbritton]

Feig set out with an agenda. Not one of equality, but one of "getting back'" at adult male GB fans for some generalized slight that most of us were apparently guilty of. He said as much, I'm not making this up. Personally, I was highly offended to be generalized, insulted, and excluded by Paul Feig, and I have no sympathy for him either.

I'm having trouble vwith you whole post full of cumulative assumptions, but this seems to be the core believe and I want to point out how much this doesn't make sense to me.
He set out with an agenda to get back at GB fans? He made the movie to spite us? How does that work? Sony, Reitman, Dan and all happily go along with this and throw 144 million at it, Feigs career is hanging on this and he just want to spite the fans?

If we all did less of this hyperbole, we all would get along a lot more. You can dislike a movie without making the director a villain.

The backlash consisted if a lot of mysognists and trolls comments. We have seen this happen again and again, also by doctor who. He attacked them, and acknowledged he understood real fans (the biggest group) had legit doubts. Media had a field day ofcourse and trolls did their best to warp content. You say you have proof he said he made the movie to spite us.

I'd love to see some proof for such a bold statement, because to me it feels like you just dislike the fact it's a reboot, and believed some troll that Feig must be a villain to GBfans.

I mean, I met the guy in the run up, when all the negativity was happening, and he was just absolutely lovely to me as a male GB fan. There was no sense of an agenda or any such nonsense, he was just happy to hear that I was excited for the film and was super gracious to all on a miserable Wednesday afternoon in cold ass London.

He always has been happy to meet and talk to any and all fans who engage him in actual conversation and even dropped a nod to Ghosthead Ryan Kemp in the credits.

After the film came out and lots of folks were down on him, he still donated a bunch of money to one of the franchises for charitable stuff. There was no need to do that, and it’s not like he made a big fuss about it either. He just likes Ghostbusters stuff and was paying attention.

Point is, Paul Feig is a decent guy. He really is. He made the film he wanted to make, in line with his other movies. He makes films with funny women and feels they are under represented, which they just straight up are. It’s not that controversial a position. It’s just a male director being a mensch in a sexist industry. When he got relentlessly trolled (the key word there being relentlessly) he finally snapped and shouted back. There isn’t a person on the planet who wouldn’t have done the same under that barrage.

No one has to like the movie, but none of the cast or crew meant any of it as an insult to Ghostbusters fans, for heavens sake. His decision to do a reboot was partly so he wouldn’t sully the originals with a follow up that didn’t do the first two justice. All anyone need do is read his intro to Ghostbusters 101 to see where his heart is.

[Alphagaia]

I'm legit curious what Montclaire's answer is going to be, because it's accusations like that, that even gets likes, what triggers the media to dislike us.

[montclaire]

Feig set out with an agenda. Not one of equality, but one of "getting back'" at adult male GB fans for some generalized slight that most of us were apparently guilty of. He said as much, I'm not making this up. Personally, I was highly offended to be generalized, insulted, and excluded by Paul Feig, and I have no sympathy for him either.

I'm having trouble vwith you whole post full of cumulative assumptions, but this seems to be the core believe and I want to point out how much this doesn't make sense to me.
He set out with an agenda to get back at GB fans? He made the movie to spite us? How does that work? Sony, Reitman, Dan and all happily go along with this and throw 144 million at it, Feigs career is hanging on this and he just want to spite the fans?

If we all did less of this hyperbole, we all would get along a lot more. You can dislike a movie without making the director a villain.

The backlash consisted if a lot of mysognists and trolls comments. We have seen this happen again and again, also by doctor who. He attacked them, and acknowledged he understood real fans (the biggest group) had legit doubts. Media had a field day ofcourse and trolls did their best to warp content. You say you have proof he said he made the movie to spite us.

I'd love to see some proof for such a bold statement, because to me it feels like you just dislike the fact it's a reboot, and believed some troll that Feig must be a villain to GBfans.

Do you have selective memory loss? Feig most definitely expressed this in interviews and social media, and then there is the final product itself. If someone has a reference to this at their fingertips please post, it will take me some time to dig back.

[Kingpin]

At most, at the absolute most it can be argued one very brief snippet of a short scene: the ATC Ghostbusters' response to the internet trolls, was a reaction/retort to the "fans" who'd been insulting and harassing him and his crew all through the film's production. It was a quick bit, and then it was over, moving on to the next scene.

The whole film wasn't done as some sort of revenge ploy.

[Wiggyof9]

Maybe I am thinking of the extended cut, but there are a few jabs. First there is the YouTube comment section stuff. Then there is the guy on the street who is a stereotypical nerd they bunch in the face. Then there is Rown himself who is another sterotypical nerd/loser whose insulted by being called a virgin who lives in his moms basement. And of course let us not forgetbthat they fight the Ghostbusters logo.

These are just examples of how the movie wasnt trying to stand on its own merits. They tried to guilt people into seeing the movie because they knew it wasnt blockbuster material.

The problem is by attacking the trolls they ended up attacking the fanbase itself which lead to more division. In the end, a movie isnt going to win by attacking the fans. Star Wars is going through a similar situation which is why Solo bombed.

[robbritton]

From the man himself in an interview for A Simple Favour last year:

Ghostbusters had ceased to be a film. It was now a political battleground. And it’s a transformation that still frustrates Feig to this day. “It became a political thing,” he says. “I think that’s why we didn’t do as well at the box office as we should have, because it’s a fun, summer movie. Some people were, like, we should make it every woman’s duty to go out and support this movie, but nobody wants that. I don’t want to go see a movie that’s, like, you have to make a statement by going to see this movie. I just want to go for fun.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 46826.html

Some rabid agenda stuff on display there.

When he called people out, he was calling out trolls. If you weren't doing that you don't have to feel worried or offended by anything he said when he lashed out. If you feel tainted by association, blame the trolls that made life so miserable for Feig and Jones in particular - they're the ones that made us look bad. Just them.

And Rowan as the logo came about as a nod to the intro of The Real Ghostbusters. It was deep fandom, not a diss. The other stuff... that was happening in wider society, it is still happening in wider society. It was as worth addressing as the independent business politics and the science vs. religion of the original and the 'treat others with kindness' of the sequel. It wasn't aimed at Ghostbusters fans, it was aimed at men who are horrible to women. There seems to be a section of Ghostbusters fans who just don't get that. The people who go 'don't bring politics into...' etc, etc as though anything is truly apolitical.

Basically, if you're not someone who treats women badly, you're not being intentionally insulted by any part of the narrative of this film.

[BatDan]

Paul and Leslie bringing back old drama just shows you who the real perpetrators were in the whole scheme of things.

[robbritton]

Just Leslie. Paul defended her as his cast member and said he was open to Jason Reitman's new film. Which is exactly what he ought to do. Professional and courteous.

[Alphagaia]

On top of that, he adds they have been harrashed by trolls for three years now. Three whole years of vile, hatefull comments every day. Let that sink in. Feig once lashed back once to a particular troll and trolls ran with this as if he attacked the fandom, instead of one immature idiot, who at that point harrashed the crew on a daily basis.

We can't just ignore that when we focus on an emotional outcry by Leslie. I still don't think she was right, and she seems an emotional person who speaks before she thinks, but I understand where it's coming from. Since it's such a mirror to what happened when they announced the reboot, so should the people who disliked that announcement.

I'm having trouble vwith you whole post full of cumulative assumptions, but this seems to be the core believe and I want to point out how much this doesn't make sense to me.
He set out with an agenda to get back at GB fans? He made the movie to spite us? How does that work? Sony, Reitman, Dan and all happily go along with this and throw 144 million at it, Feigs career is hanging on this and he just want to spite the fans?

If we all did less of this hyperbole, we all would get along a lot more. You can dislike a movie without making the director a villain.

The backlash consisted if a lot of mysognists and trolls comments. We have seen this happen again and again, also by doctor who. He attacked them, and acknowledged he understood real fans (the biggest group) had legit doubts. Media had a field day ofcourse and trolls did their best to warp content. You say you have proof he said he made the movie to spite us.

I'd love to see some proof for such a bold statement, because to me it feels like you just dislike the fact it's a reboot, and believed some troll that Feig must be a villain to GBfans.

Do you have selective memory loss? Feig most definitely expressed this in interviews and social media, and then there is the final product itself. If someone has a reference to this at their fingertips please post, it will take me some time to dig back.

No, actually I really think you are being the one with a selective memory. I'm really curious what you will present to prove your claim that Feig hates GBfans. Even in the bit Kingpin mentions in the movie it only takes a quick jab at the trolls and mysoginists. Take your time if you must, I think it's that important to adress.

Maybe I am thinking of the extended cut, but there are a few jabs. First there is the YouTube comment section stuff. Then there is the guy on the street who is a stereotypical nerd they bunch in the face. Then there is Rown himself who is another sterotypical nerd/loser whose insulted by being called a virgin who lives in his moms basement. And of course let us not forgetbthat they fight the Ghostbusters logo.

These are just examples of how the movie wasnt trying to stand on its own merits. They tried to guilt people into seeing the movie because they knew it wasnt blockbuster material.

The problem is by attacking the trolls they ended up attacking the fanbase itself which lead to more division. In the end, a movie isnt going to win by attacking the fans. Star Wars is going through a similar situation which is why Solo bombed.

- Erin punches a vlogger because he confronts her on a secret in het past and streams this live as he does it. Why is this a dig at GBfans?
- Nerd in basements is a known stereotype. This is not a stab at GBfans.
- Rowan is a bully and chooses the GBlogo to bully and humiliate them. He already uses their tech against them because he hates humanity, so why not the logo? It all makes sense in the world and mirrors Stay Puft as its something cute that becomes deadly. If this was intended as a slight to all GBfans, do you really think Sony, Reitman et all let them do it? I actually like his design as well!

[DarkSpectre]

I think the main problem is that the hyper left latched onto this film as a rallying call and pushed it in to a much larger spotlight than the film could back up. But sadly they didn't even turn up to support it which lead to the film being perceived as a Paul Feig led, social agenda driven film and not a dumb popcorn film. Was it stupid to make references to the on going vitriol, Yes. they should've not even acknowledged it and robbed the most heinous of their power. Answer The Call isn't a great film by any stretch. There are some fun elements to it and some neat gear but 3 years out it's apparent that Feig really didn't want to do this film and basically did a Paul Feig film about ghost busting to maintain his comfort zone. If you strip the Ghostbusters elements from it, it plays like a Feig film in many respects. It was at the core a film about reigniting a friendship and misfits banding together which is completely different from the originals exploiting science for profit. I truly eel that IDW took his flawed intro to the characters and really fleshed them out into their own characters. I personally don;t like Feig's films but he has done some decent work. But he really wasn't the right fit for a Ghostbusters reboot. I blame Amy Pascal misinterpreting his body of work to push an agenda. And sadly the cast and crew got swept up in it.

EDIT: I'm a moderate liberal.

[Kingpin]

Sorry Back, but that image was just a bit to provokative for my liking.

And of course let us not forgetbthat they fight the Ghostbusters logo.

Except that was never meant to be some sort of symbolism for the production's experiences with the fans who weren't keen on the reboot.

They tried to guilt people into seeing the movie because they knew it wasnt blockbuster material.

Forgive me... But that conclusion is absolute bullshit. Nobody was being guilt-tripped into seeing it.

Paul and Leslie bringing back old drama just shows you who the real perpetrators were in the whole scheme of things.

Also bullshit. I disagree with Paul and Leslie's remarks of recent, and hell knows they're only sending the flames shooting by pouting gasoline on what had become a pretty small tinder box fire, but they didn't throw the first rock during that toxic summer.

[timeware]

They didn't throw the first stone. While I love Leslie she did have a bad habit of provoking the trolls by making comments like "I'm a ghostbuster now bitch." and the such.

[Wiggyof9]

One thing people need to realize is you will never win by trying to take on a group of people online. The people who attacked Leslie were going to attack her no matter what she did. By responding, all she did was make them want to attack her more because they got a reaction. When a group attacks you like that the only proper response is to ignore them and let them go away. If they get no reaction they won't continue to troll.

This is not the same as "victim blaming", as I have been accused of this. Victim blaming is when you claim a person brought it on themselves and deserved it. I am simply saying when something like this happens, don't try taking them on. One person will never win against a mob like that.

What annoys me is she is doing exactly what was done to her. The difference is she is only hurting the studio that supported her.

[SSJmole]

What annoys me is she is doing exactly what was done to her. The difference is she is only hurting the studio that supported her.

No she's her not. She's angry / upset that she went through all that and it feels like all her work is invalidated.

What was do to her was sexist and racist abuse over and over and over.

It's not exactly the same. It's not even close to been the same. Here comes from passion and hard work. Theirs came from a place that was just agaist her gender and/or race. Let's be fair here

[DocLathropBrown]

Who gives a shit?

We're getting GB3. Just ignore it. Everyone should have better things to worry about than people on the internet (who you'll never meet) getting pissy about movies (which don't really matter, by any stretch).

[back]

...We're getting GB3. Just ignore it. Everyone should have better things to worry about....

Agreed!
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We should be loosing our shit right now!

[robbritton]

...We're getting GB3. Just ignore it. Everyone should have better things to worry about....

Agreed!
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We should be loosing our shit right now!

Now this I can get behind!

[SSJmole]

Who gives a shit?

We're getting GB3. Just ignore it. Everyone should have better things to worry about than people on the internet (who you'll never meet) getting pissy about movies (which don't really matter, by any stretch).

I agree with sentiment but it bleeds into real life. It can also effect a film in the eyes of the main stream. A lot of films that have as much negativity around the brand as this can turn off the casual audience. We need the casual audience. Today's first time watcher is tommorows collector or cosplayer or member of the community.

In 2019 social media presence is more important than ever , there's cases and studies like https://childmind.org/article/is-social ... epression/ that show social media is effecting the this generation more than ever.

If this has as much toxic fans as it has had last 4 years or so then it can hurt the brands ability to make box office return or even merchandise sales ect ..

Imagine if the new ghostbusters is everything you wanted to return to brand to it's glory days. But imagine it bombs in sales as people are put off by the stuff they read daily on social media. If we don't do something to unite fans properly and stamp out the toxic behaviour that we can or at the very least make it widespread knowledge that we are against those actions then it's game over sadly.

[back]

Who gives a shit?

We're getting GB3. Just ignore it. Everyone should have better things to worry about than people on the internet (who you'll never meet) getting pissy about movies (which don't really matter, by any stretch).

I agree with sentiment but it bleeds into real life. It can also effect a film in the eyes of the main stream. A lot of films that have as much negativity around the brand as this can turn off the casual audience. We need the casual audience. Today's first time watcher is tommorows collector or cosplayer or member of the community.

In 2019 social media presence is more important than ever , there's cases and studies like https://childmind.org/article/is-social ... epression/ that show social media is effecting the this generation more than ever.

If this has as much toxic fans as it has had last 4 years or so then it can hurt the brands ability to make box office return or even merchandise sales ect ..

Imagine if the new ghostbusters is everything you wanted to return to brand to it's glory days. But imagine it bombs in sales as people are put off by the stuff they read daily on social media. If we don't do something to unite fans properly and stamp out the toxic behaviour that we can or at the very least make it widespread knowledge that we are against those actions then it's game over sadly.

Dang... You couldnt be more right. More hype may be needed. hmm...

[Wiggyof9]

What annoys me is she is doing exactly what was done to her. The difference is she is only hurting the studio that supported her.

No she's her not. She's angry / upset that she went through all that and it feels like all her work is invalidated.

What was do to her was sexist and racist abuse over and over and over.

It's not exactly the same. It's not even close to been the same. Here comes from passion and hard work. Theirs came from a place that was just agaist her gender and/or race. Let's be fair here

She is doing the same thing that was done to her. It may come from a different place, but it's the same thing. She is trashing a production that isn't even made yet based solely on what little she has heard of it. She basically said SONY was being sexist and giving in to sexist fans by making a sequel to GB2 instead of ATC. The thing is, fans aren't hurt by those comments. Stuff like that only hurts SONY and pushes forward the idea that sexism divides the fan base. The reality is we have no flippin' idea about casting or story. All we know is it takes place in the same universe as the first two movies, which is all many of us wanted. However, she still claimed sexism was the reason for this move.

I think the real issue I have is that the cast and crew can't accept that there are people that simply didn't like their movie. I can go beat by beat why I didn't like the movie based simply on it's merits, and there are still people that will say I'm being sexist. It's really annoying and it makes it so that real sexism gets brushed off. It's like how everyone gets called a Nazi these days.

SONY is trying to save the franchise. The comics are trying to save the ATC characters. Supporting GB3 also supports the ATC characters for a potential second shot. Jones' comments potentially ruin those chances. She's shooting herself in the foot.

[ghostJAR]

She should had let sleeping dogs lie.

As for media. I dont care what they say. They don’t define me and my love for GB. Respect me and I’ll respect you.

[DocLathropBrown]

Internet opinion holds almost no weight. If it did, there's no way the first four Transformers movies would have grossed $1 billion+ at the worldwide box office. The overwhelming majority of movie-goers aren't in the trenches of internet arguing like we are. That also includes those who are going to get swayed by politicized articles or arguments.

Life's too short to get into petty arguments over people not liking what you like. If the people whining about GB3 are childish, then what does that make the people whiny enough to have to 'fight back?' By engaging, you're making yourself actually look like the stereotypical GB16 sexists. There will be no winning in the eyes of those who want to see you that way, so don't bother. The best revenge is living well. GB3 lives. Just be silent and happy.

The need to argue back is just as immature as the people who start the argument. Just ignore it. You'll all live longer.

[joezlo]

Oh let this crap die already. I find anytime that guy at forbes reviews or mentions a franchise its always go some nitpicky negative shtick to it. If you aren't one of the loopy trolls, dont let it bother you. Just keep doing what you do so people know: WE BUST TROLLS. (unless they like to par tee. then we send them to our old college buddies)

[montclaire]

Going through many, many articles and posts will take quite a while, but allow me to lay a little foundation here. In March of 2014 Feig and Pascal were emailing back and forth about an all-female Spider Man movie. Pascal calls it her "glass ceiling" project. Feig officially announces that he is helming the new Ghostbusters film in October, and in November, Pascal writes, "I saw jerry Weintraub last night and he told me that he and warners were doing a female version of oceans eleven. We gotta beat everyone."

The truth here is that Feig and Pascal were looking for a property - any property - to turn into a "glass ceiling busting" vehicle. GB was just a floundering franchise that happened to fit the bill for them to co-opt.

[Alphagaia]

I think the real issue I have is that the cast and crew can't accept that there are people that simply didn't like their movie. I can go beat by beat why I didn't like the movie based simply on it's merits, and there are still people that will say I'm being sexist. It's really annoying and it makes it so that real sexism gets brushed off. It's like how everyone gets called a Nazi these days.

I hear this a lot, but Feig has said time and time again he understands legit complaints, and you are not a sexist because of those.

Why does this sentiment keep appearing?

@Montclair:I fail to see how that means they want to make a movie to spite GBfans while Feig is famous for making multiple successful movies with female leads, but since you are still building your case I'll wait.

[err404]

I consider myself a bit of an outsider as I was not on these forums until recently. That said I do remember the debacle of 2016. I would like to present my impression of the events from the POV of somebody who was not invested on either side. From what I saw the problems started when a hand full of right leaning social media personality’s attacked the film and early trailer as an example of identity politics in Hollywood. While they made some valid points, the rhetoric quickly became toxic.
People on both sides ran to the defense of their team and did everything possible to demonize the other side. Criticism was conflated with sexism and support was conflated with identity politics.
Again as an outsider at the time, I did not consider either side of the debate to be the stance of the Fandom. Rather the movie was a punching bags being used by two sides whose fight began well before GB2016 was announced.
In the end GB2016 fell well short of studio expectations and was unlikely to receive a direct sequel as a result. This should have been the end for GB for a long time, but Sony needs a cash cow and still sees value in the 80s franchise. Amazingly they take another swing in and the 2020 movie is green lite. Many people seem to want to make this choice politically, but dropping the 2016 cannon is a prudent decision based on its performance and disconnect from the original movies.
I expect the 2020 movie to distance itself largely from both the original movie and the 2016 reboot. It seems likely to be a soft reboot that is still in cannon with the 80s movies but not connected strongly enough to be a sequel to those stories.

[back]

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[SSJmole]

I think the real issue I have is that the cast and crew can't accept that there are people that simply didn't like their movie. I can go beat by beat why I didn't like the movie based simply on it's merits, and there are still people that will say I'm being sexist. It's really annoying and it makes it so that real sexism gets brushed off. It's like how everyone gets called a Nazi these days.

I hear this a lot, but Feig has said time and time again he understands legit complaints, and you are not a sexist because of those.

Why does this sentiment keep appearing?

Exactly. It's what I've said it's making excuses for the sexists and acting like the victims of their attack were the bad guys. It's dangerous thinking that's lead to this fandom been fractured and looked down upon by the media at large.

[back]

It's dangerous thinking that's lead to this fandom been fractured and looked down upon by the media at large.

Did I hear something about the media???
One simple solution, two words...
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lol