Discuss all things Ghostbusters here, unless they would be better suited in one of the few forums below.
#4886266
JurorNo.2 wrote:
Um, considering I'm a woman with a job outside the home, no that is not what I said, lol.
Yeah but you still bring up a stereotype, if everyone thinks like that we can forget about gender equality. Not trying to have a go at you but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion. :-D
#4886277
pferreira1983 wrote:but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion. :-D
Um, no. I said men tend not to stay at home. Furthermore, I said it's not always their choice not to stay at home. And stating the fact that women are more likely to stay home isn't saying that is "their place." That is all coming from you. ;)
#4886332
pferreira1983 wrote: Not trying to have a go at you but a woman saying women mostly stay at home ends up reinforcing beliefs as to where I woman's place is, at least in my opinion. :-D
How is a person stating a fact mean that they are reinforcing those beliefs???


If I say drinking and driving can cause fatal accidents this does not mean I endorse drinking and driving.
#4886576
Styrofoam_Guy wrote:How is a person stating a fact mean that they are reinforcing those beliefs???

If I say drinking and driving can cause fatal accidents this does not mean I endorse drinking and driving.
It can lead to double standards and a wrong way of thinking. I get what you're saying though.
#4886597
Maybe not women but I have seen girls feel that way. Last few years you have stuff like black widow not on avengers merchandise ect . That a bigger gender divide between girls and boys has come.

Those girls DO need a female version to watch as they need heroes to look up to too. As now days there is too much "not for them" mindset.

Even star wars left Rey off some merchandise at first and she was the main character. That's why this film was needed.

I watched with a girl in my family and she loved it. She finally had heroes of her own and it felt good.

The sad thing is the women in the movie had the most in common with the originals in terms of work they have done. But people act like been female makes them less.

Also some women do feel alienated too as look how many "sexy ghostbusters" colander's or pictures you can see online. Also the fact ghostbusters come out with members who are female and the internet exploding to bashing them for been female. It will have made them feel like they don't belong.

I also don't blame trump. It's like over here in UK when black Friday happened for first time everyone blamed America for it. But America is not the reason someone would push pregnant women over to get a TV. They were already jerks. Same with trumps tweet. People didn't read it and become sexist they already were.

Would they have said it as much? No but they would have scored film lower ect...and hid behind other excuses. So I'm glad they were exposed as hateful jerks.

Even most of the people using the "I just hate reboots" exude you know they loved something like "batman begins" or "rise of planet of the apes" or just other reboots. He'll even on TV the flash is loved , still reboots the 90s one. Westworld is a TV reboot of orginal film. It happens yet this is the one everyone hates reboots on? Some really do hate it been a reboot BUT there's too many for me to not think "its cause they are women" I mean this film has more hate than most Adam Sandler films! It's not bad at all.

So yeah there is some or alot feeling separated but alot are too afraid to speak out too as when they do just get lots of males telling them why they are "wrong"
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#4886683
I am 100% for movies (and toy companies) making a bigger effort to give girls heroes. My little niece was always an adventurous type, more likely to want to run around with a toy sword playing pirate than playing with dolls and as she got a bit older I was disappointed when she started kindergarten and stopped doing those things I knew she loved because shed been made to feel they were "boys stuff" and I could see her trying to force herself to like things like Frozen and Tinkerbell even though I could tell she didnt like them. Ever since then I've made a big effort to show her female heroes like Rey from Star Wars TFA, Hermione from Harry Potter and showing her Supergirl comics etc. Im taking her to Moana too, hope its good. Im a huge supporter of any movie with strong female heroes girls like my niece can look up to without feeling like all they have is Disney princesses.

HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go. Anyone could see the backlash coming. No number of Paul Feig tweets of women and girls dressed like Holtzman is going to stop someone who has loved GB as it was for decades to feel like they havnt been robbed. Not to mention the whole concept of creating female heroes who are hand-me-down female versions of male characters is pretty sad in itself.
SSJmole wrote:Even most of the people using the "I just hate reboots" exude you know they loved something like "batman begins" or "rise of planet of the apes" or just other reboots. He'll even on TV the flash is loved , still reboots the 90s one. Westworld is a TV reboot of orginal film. It happens yet this is the one everyone hates reboots on? Some really do hate it been a reboot BUT there's too many for me to not think "its cause they are women" I mean this film has more hate than most Adam Sandler films! It's not bad at all.
Those really arent comparable. For one thing, all those reboots were aimed at the same demographic as the original. I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme. And things like Batman are just new adaptations of a comic character (likewise the Flash has nothing remotely to do with the 90s series). They were also reboots of franchises that had been completely ruined and run into the ground by previous entries.

Also, I wouldnt even say there is hate for reboots. In most cases when a franchise that is dead/ruined is announced that its being rebooted most fans are usually positive. Its really a hate for remakes that people have.
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886690
Commander_Jim wrote: HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go.
Anyone could see the backlash coming
No one could have predicted such a bizarre, mean spirited overreaction. Especially over a comedy. And especially from a fanbase made up of supposed adults. Grown men throwing fits because their favorite toy was given to a child is beyond sad. And apparently it's even more of an outrage that said child is a girl? Jesus...are there any adults in this situation?
a 30 year legacy behind it
I'm 33, that's really not that old. ;) Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep. They weren't worried about GB's legacy; just their own precious childhoods.
I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme.
And would be another embarrassing overreaction from grown men. I'm not sure what you're defending there. Even Bronies know how to share. :sigh:
#4886693
Are movies really so valueless to you? You think its "sad" that people care about things that they have a large interest in, have invested time and money into because its just some "toy", who cares what people do with it? Im sorry you feel this way, but movies are a huge part of my life, probably my main hobby/interest and I do care what they do with characters and universes that I have spent a large portion of my life watching and discussing and spent lots of money on for tickets, DVDs, Blu Rays, merchandise etc. And I'll certainly speak my opinion on what they do with them.
Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep.
Ben Hur is 60 years old and hardly a part of modern pop culture the way that GB is. How many fanboys for it do you think are on the internet? Who was around to make a peep? Most of the people who care about that film are dead, old or are classic movie fans, demographics who make up a tiny, silent portion of the internet movie fan community. And even then that movie was met with nothing but mockery and one of the lowest like to dislike ratios for any recent movie trailers on youtube and went on to become the biggest bomb of the year, so hardly a good example to use of people not hating remakes. Also, it wasnt technically a remake, being an original script based on the book.
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#4886695
JurorNo.2 wrote:
Commander_Jim wrote: HOWEVER taking an established franchise that has a 30 year legacy behind it, has a built in fanbase made up primarily of males aged 20-40 and using that as a vehicle for it is not the way to go.
Anyone could see the backlash coming
No one could have predicted such a bizarre, mean spirited overreaction. Especially over a comedy. And especially from a fanbase made up of supposed adults. Grown men throwing fits because their favorite toy was given to a child is beyond sad. And apparently it's even more of an outrage that said child is a girl? Jesus...are there any adults in this situation?
a 30 year legacy behind it
I'm 33, that's really not that old. ;) Ben-Hur was remade and the fan boys (who normally brag about their extensive film knowledge and love of art over "cash grabs") barely made a peep. They weren't worried about GB's legacy; just their own precious childhoods.
I think if they took Batman and aimed it at young girls the hate would be extreme.
And would be another embarrassing overreaction from grown men. I'm not sure what you're defending there. Even Bronies know how to share. :sigh:
And now ask yourself how big would the backlash be, if it was the other way around!
What if they took the Disney Princesses and Barbie and other girl shows from your childhood and remade them into asskicking superheroes, fighting demons and wearing sexy outfits clearly aimed at adult males? Don't you think the women who grew up with those characters would be just as pissed about it as many of the fans are now?
#4886696
Commander_Jim wrote:Are movies really so valueless to you?
Come on, man, I think you know that's yet another overreaction.
You think its "sad" that people care about things that they have a large interest in, have invested time and money into because its just some "toy"
I invest time and money in movies or music I like, sure. Everyone does. But like I've said several times, when such things become overly precious to fans (like Gollum precious), things can turn ugly. Children throw fits when they didn't get exactly what they asked for for Christmas. Adults put their wants and desires in perspective. I mean Aykroyd is a true believer in ghosts, but even he has always said that Ghostbusters was just for fun. GB fans might want to learn from that.
Ben Hur is 60 years old and hardly a part of modern pop culture the way that GB is. How many fanboys for it do you think are on the internet?
Um, most genres don't have "fanboys" in the way we're using the word. That doesn't mean they aren't part of modern pop culture. Plus, first you were all impressed that GB was 30 years old. Now you're writing off Ben-Hur because 60 is too old. You know GB will be 60 some day as well. ;)
Most of the people who care about that film are dead, old or are classic movie fans, demographics who make up a tiny, silent portion of the internet movie fan community.
Except that, again, fanboys are the first ones to declare their extensive knowledge and appreciation of film history and art. Though lately "history" seems to be anything that happened in their own childhoods, onward (Star Wars often being the lone exception, despite the 70s being an amazing decade for so many other movies).
And even then that movie was met with nothing but mockery and one of the lowest like to dislike ratios for any recent movie trailers on youtube and went on to become the biggest bomb of the year, so hardly a good example to use of people not hating remakes.
No one can argue with a straight face that the reaction was anywhere near comparable to what we saw with GB16.
Also, it wasnt technically a remake, being an original script based on the book.
That is still a remake. Hollywood pulls that "more faithful to the book" hype all the time. And this is exactly what I'm talking about, you guys will make any excuse for any other reboot or remake, or reboot disguised as a sequel. Except GB16, that's somehow a crime against humanity! There is nothing rational about this.
Last edited by JurorNo.2 on December 6th, 2016, 10:52 am, edited 10 times in total.
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#4886697
Skyknight wrote: And now ask yourself how big would the backlash be, if it was the other way around!
What if they took the Disney Princesses and Barbie and other girl shows from your childhood and remade them into asskicking superheroes, fighting demons and wearing sexy outfits clearly aimed at adult males? Don't you think the women who grew up with those characters would be just as pissed about it as many of the fans are now?
Just as pissed? No. There was nothing remotely typical about the reaction to GB16.
#4886699
Why is everyone reacting like the demographic switch was that bad? This is ****ing 2016 people. News flash lots of girls loved the orginal and kids too.

Women as main character should NOT change the demographic. It was made so kids now can enjoy (what passed for pg in orginal doesn't now like smoking)

Was the orginal about? 3 quirky scientists go in to ghost hunter business get joined by someone else the non scientist (used to explain to us what's going on) and they save new York from ghosts.

What's new one about? 3 quirky scientists go in to ghost hunter business get joined by someone else the non scientist (used to explain to us what's going on) and they save new York from ghosts.


I agree it has remake elements (and new) but if it is a "remake" why is the demographic different?

Boys can play with dolls and girls with cars. It doesn't matter. If the demographic changes just cause its women then the old demographic must be sexist and I'm sorry i won't believe that as the orginal is so good and so hateless that it cheapens it using it as a weapon of hate.

And you wonder why women would alienated? Your basically saying "only men are the demographic because women can't enjoy"

Sorry if post is angry but that's how I feel. Look at episode VII, Rey was removed from some posters , monopoly had no Rey it had luke and vader and kylo and Finn. The studio tried to hide that she was main character just so certain people wouldn't feel excluded. That's a big problem as they never had to hide luke or Anakin.

This film had the guts to say "women are our leads and we are proud" and it got crucified for it. That's so sad. Even more with ghostbusters where in fandom people cosplay as themselves cause ANYONE can be a ghostbuster.

Do I think its not sad what came before is gone? Yes but i did with ninja turtles movies too but I do NOT act this mean or hate filled at it.

It's 2016 can't we finally share our fandoms?
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#4886700
SSJmole wrote:Why is everyone reacting like the demographic switch was that bad? This is ****ing 2016 people. News flash lots of girls loved the orginal and kids too.
Well, at this point, many detractors will tell you, "It's not that I hate women, it's that feminism is out to destroy the world." They've decided something is their enemy and nothing is going to change their mind.
I'm sorry i won't believe that as the orginal is so good and so hateless that it cheapens it using it as a weapon of hate.
I agree, and I do wish more fans would realize they are only damaging GB's legacy by behaving that way.
This film had the guts to say "women are our leads and we are proud" and it got crucified for it.
It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.
#4886701
JurorNo.2 wrote: It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.
I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
#4886702
SSJmole wrote:
JurorNo.2 wrote: It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. But thankfully, I don't think it will even really matter in the long term. GBII was bashed for years, meanwhile the kids who grew up with it never stopped enjoying it. I think the same will happen with GB16.
I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.
#4886703
JurorNo.2 wrote:
SSJmole wrote:
I slightly disagree as I loved the fan service in it like cameos and as I said in another thread the balloon scene I genuinely felt a like a again and was just smiling for so long after lol I think the fan service is one reason I'm so puzzled and its like a love note to it.
Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.

Ah i'm sorry I misunderstood. In that case I agree


(I know a civil post on the internet admitting your own mistakes. I'm a maverick lol)
JurorNo.2 liked this
#4886705
SSJmole wrote:
JurorNo.2 wrote:
Oh absolutely, that's why I singled out narrow fan service. You're right, GB16 has a ton of affection for the originals and it's too bad so many fans aren't able to see that; too busy being outraged.

Ah i'm sorry I misunderstood. In that case I agree


(I know a civil post on the internet admitting your own mistakes. I'm a maverick lol)
Lol, well you're very right to point out that fan service isn't in itself a bad thing. :cool:
#4886708
JurorNo.2 wrote:
Commander_Jim wrote:Are movies really so valueless to you?
Come on, man, I think you know that's yet another overreaction.
Well you just said that no fans should have a problem if they took a well established character (my example being Batman) and totally changed it in order to direct it towards a totally different demographic, and its hard for me to understand how anyone who thinks that could really care too much about the subject matter. What if they did the opposite with GB for example and went the other way and made it R rated and ultra violent, should fans just be happy we get to "share" it with another demographic?
No one can argue with a straight face that the reaction was anywhere near comparable to what we saw with GB16.
No one can argue with a straight face that Ben Hur is in any way comparable to Ghostbusters in terms of popularity or pop culture standing. Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw someone with a Ben Hur T shirt walking around, or walked into a toy store and saw shelves full of Ben Hur merchandise or saw groups of Ben Hur cosplayers attending charity events?
It also had the guts to go against narrow fan service. And that's really why fans are annoyed. They think being pandered to by a studio equals respect. B
GB'16 is the most pandering thing Ive ever seen in my life. Barely a scene goes by without it trying to ass kiss the original.
Last edited by Commander_Jim on December 6th, 2016, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#4886709
Commander_Jim wrote: direct it towards a totally different demographic
And? They're not Martians, they're fellow human beings, who cares?
and its hard for me to understand how anyone who thinks that could really care too much about the subject matter.
I'm sure Ray cares a lot about studying fungus too but that doesn't mean he collects it the way Egon does. ;)
What if they did the opposite with GB for example and went the other way and made it R rated and ultra violent, should fans just be happy we get to "share" it with another demographic?
As long as the original movie wasn't Special Edition-ed somehow, it's not that big a deal. None of the original GB's have been changed.
No one can argue with a straight face that Ben Hur is in any way comparable to Ghostbusters in terms of popularity or pop culture standing.
It's a different type of popularity and pop culture standing. Not to mention the countless movies that have been influenced by Ben-Hur's chariot race. And once again, fanboys can't go around pompously claiming to be the protectors of art and film history and then pick and choose which classic to be outraged for.
Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw someone with a Ben Hur T shirt walking around, or walked into a toy store and saw shelves full of Ben Hur merchandise or saw groups of Ben Hur cosplayers attending charity events?
That isn't the only way to be a fan of something. Like I said earlier, different genres show appreciation in different ways. It's just different. I hate to be a cliche here, but different doesn't mean bad.
Clifton Sleigh liked this
#4886710
Commander_Jim wrote: GB'16 is the most pandering thing Ive ever seen in my life. Barely a scene goes by without it trying to ass kiss the original.
Lol, if they don't mention the originals, it's disrespectful. If they do mention the originals, it's pandering. Dude, you guys are determined to see everything about this movie in the worst possible light. That is not rational criticism, that's just fanboying.
#4886711
So essentially what you're saying is that they could take Ghostbusters or any other movie/book/TV show you love, have spent years being a fan of, and push it at a different demographic and change it into something you dont like, but you're totally down with that as long as some other human beings like it? Well thats very generous of you.
Lol, if they don't mention the originals, it's disrespectful. If they do mention the originals, it's pandering. Dude, you guys are determined to see everything about this movie in the worst light possible. That is not rational criticism, that's just fanboying.
Nope, I've never seen fanservice as anything other than a lame attempt at appealing to an audiences sense of nostalgia. I didnt need or want it to reference the originals.
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886712
Commander_Jim wrote:So essentially what you're saying is that they could take Ghostbusters or any other movie/book/TV show you love, have spent years being a fan of, and push it at a different demographic and change it into something you dont like, but you're totally down with that as long as some other human beings like it? Well thats very generous of you.
Having spent years?...Dude, it wasn't hard labor, lol. And perhaps you need to do a bit better than complaining about a demographic being different. If you told me the new Ghostbusters movie was a Scientology commercial (not unheard of in Hollywood), I might agree with you that that's bad. But if the change is merely a different type of entertainment, that's OK. Again, the originals haven't been changed at all. And like SSJmole said, just because the leads are now women doesn't mean you are incapable of relating to them.
Nope, I've never seen fanservice as anything other than a lame attempt at appealing to an audiences sense of nostalgia. I didnt need or want it to reference the originals.
You must not like GBII then, or pretty much any sequel because fan service is what sequels thrive on. And no offence but you haven't convinced me that you're not just looking for another reason to put down GB16.
Clifton Sleigh liked this
#4886716
Sorry, but I disagree. I believe in remaining true to the source material (in cases of adaptation) or keeping true to the characters and universe thats been established in the case of original films.
You must not like GBII then, or pretty much any sequel because fan service is what sequels thrive on.
Fan service isnt callbacks to previous events in direct sequels. Fan service is using people's nostalgia for a different movie to make them like another movie. The Force Awakens was full of fan service. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi werent. Indiana Jones 4 was full of fan service. Temple of Doom and Last Crusade werent.
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#4886717
Commander_Jim wrote:(my example being Batman) and totally changed it in order to direct it towards a totally different demographic
Batman and robin and batman begins are the same demographic? No. Again ghostbusters when from family film to family film it's not like it went from Saw to Dora the explorer lol.

Also things actually do change demographics alot. Like WWF back in the days went from doink the clown pg to stone cold swearing and drinking beers.

Ghostbusters changed demographic with its cartoons. (the second film seems so based on the cartoon)

Changing from family film with men to family film with women is not a demographic change. Or it shouldn't be as who cares about sex if they are good?

In what way has the demographic changed?
JurorNo.2 liked this
#4886720
Commander_Jim wrote:Sorry, but I disagree. I believe in remaining true to the source material (in cases of adaptation) or keeping true to the characters and universe thats been established in the case of original films.
That is your and many other fans' prerogative. It just doesn't excuse or even really explain what went down this year.
Fan service isnt callbacks to previous events in direct sequels. Fan service is using people's nostalgia for a different movie to make them like another movie. The Force Awakens was full of fan service. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi werent. Indiana Jones 4 was full of fan service. Temple of Doom and Last Crusade werent.
Going back to Tatooine and bringing back the Death Star was definitely fan service. You can be a direct sequel and still intentionally appeal to people's nostalgia. It's not that rigid. Anyway, the point is I'm not sure you'd be thrilled with any direction GB16 tried to go in.
Clifton Sleigh liked this
#4886725
SSJmole wrote: Batman and robin and batman begins are the same demographic? No.
And Batman & Robin is pretty much the most hated movie of all time, a movie the director apologised to fans for making, so...
I was actually going to mention B&R in my previous post as a perfect example of a movie that changed demographics.
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